[aprssig] Worst Path of the Day

Robert Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Tue Oct 26 19:08:35 CDT 2004

Wes, I agree completely.  Thanks for the reminders of the 
LANn-N and LINKn-N solutions!  THey work well and they
are under local control!   And yes, you can see
someone's path on the D700, just hit P.MON to see the
raw packets.

>>> aprs at kd4rdb.com 10/26/04 7:47:14 PM >>>
I know this will stir up a whole mess in the proverbial "pot", but here

Bob, your idea of self policing is great to an extent.  I don't like
brother" restricting my packets, and I know your philosophy well enough
to know
that you/we/me don't want the network to stop me from doing something I
need to do in the event of an emergency.  I agree with this

BUT... (hey, there's always a but in there)

I fear APRS will suffer the same fate as the PBBS systems did 10 years
ago when
they collapsed on themselves sending those darned "for sale" messages
allusa.  There was so much QRM on the bbs frequencies, especially in
the rual
areas with the userport on the same frequency as the bbs forwarding
port that
the users couldn't get in.  The result was the users quit using the
system, and
all that was left was a hollow shell of FORSALE messages.  It's like a
hole... the more popular it becomes, the more crowded it gets, the
aggrivating it gets.  Next thing you know, it collapses on itself.  I
want to see APRS suffer that same fate.

My point is that while I agree with having the freedom to use any path
I can
dream up, I also see the result... packets originating from stations
who cannot
be reached to ask them to make a correction - or stations such as
ww1r/nc4cv in
NC who _wouldn't_ make a change.  This puts the local digi op's in a
of having to restrict access to the local digi's by the offending
Here in Sumter SC, the local digi won't digipeat you on RF if you have
than 3 hops in your path.  This is done with javaaprs, but on a KPC3
type digi,
the only option is to bud list the offenders.  I really hate to do that
when they find out they've been budlisted, they get angry at the
But as a digi owner, I've gotta do something to control the network for
good of all.  But alas, I don't think budlisting is the answer, and
java aprs
requires a PC to run which I do not expect most digi operators will
want to
install at their sites.  Also, when you budlist someone for running a
path, then they respond by using even worse paths like RELAY RELAY
and running enough power to reach a home stations who hasn't budlisted

I think the two real solutions we have at hand are:
1)LANn-n implemented on a state by state basis.  SCn-n, VAn-n, NCn-n,
and GAn-n
are active in some/most areas of these states.  Eventually, when these
systems are widespread enough, we'll shut off WIDEn-n in areas
picareously over
burdened already... just as people in L.A. have shut off RELAY.  I also
that this has the downside of looking like a tower of babble, where
must know specifics of the areas they visit in order to access the
network.  A
simple path of WIDE,WIDE would have to remain universal.  I sure wish
kenwood d700 and d7a(g) would show the path information... users of
radios don't stand a chance of learning the local customary paths.

2)Alt-input digi's.... these give the mobiles a fair chance to get into
network when they don't stand a chance otherwise due to hidden
problems caused by 100's of out of town packets streaming into the
local area.
This is the equivalent of putting the userport on a different frequency
than the
forwarding port in the PBBS example above.  The users, of course, still
on the forwarding port frequency.

Just my thoughts... and Bob, pse don't take offense, I'm not picking on



Quoting Robert Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu>:

> >Might I suggest to those...make a list of those with
> >wide5-5 or greater..and post here on the SIG.
> For those with APRSdos, it is trivial to find the bad apples:
> On the DIGI-PATH (D) page:
> Use the JUST command as in : "J wide5"
> and a list of all the WIDE5-N users will be listed.
> Similar for the 6's and 7's, etc...
> Self policing is the HAM radio way.....  Thanks, Bob
> _______________________________________________
> aprssig mailing list
> aprssig at lists.tapr.org 
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