[aprssig] The New N-N paradigm CAN WORK

Robert Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Thu Oct 28 21:48:22 CDT 2004

>>> rtg at aapsc.com 10/28/04 9:13:43 PM >>>
>> Then I would hate to travel in your area if my mom lived
>> there and every year at XMAS you are denying me the
>> chance of letting her see me approach..

>What am I hearing here?  
>Am I now hearing you say that it's OK for _you_ to run a 
>long path just so your mom can see you?
>And everybody else's excuse for running a long path is illegitimate?

No, you clearly have not been following my unchanging position
over the last 12 years of APRS!  I will try to make it very clear:
1) The network is over saturated by unbeliveably long paths
     used all day, every day, on a routine basis by people who
     are not being considerate to the network and have no clue
     as to the real capacity of a single shared 1200 baud local

2)  I have ALWAYS however been opposed to having the
     NETWORK arbitrarily cut ANYONE off from long paths
    that he might need on a rare occasion.
3)  I have always maintained that only the SENDER of a packet
     has the knowledge about his immediate need to communicate
     and the best path to do so, and so if someone needs a one-time
     long path to accomplish a specific immediate goal, I STRONGLY
     support his ability to do so.

4)  I would hope that any person with any common sense would
    see the difference between a once a year one hour need to
    send a packet beyond 2 hops compared to people that send
    4, 5, 6 or 7 hops 24 hours a day 365 days a year...  For those 
    that are mathematically challenged, the difference is on the
    order of 10,000 to one.

Yes, I DEFEND anyone's including mine, right to send a long
path to accomplish a specific RARE need.  But on the flip side
I strongly dissaprove of routine use of any path beyond one's 
own ALOHA range. 

Common sense.  That is all I ask for.  And common sense and
the network in most places cannot tolerate everyone sending
packets beyond their ALOHA circle all the time.  That is what
prevents anyone from using APRS reliably for those RARE
instances where they do need it.

NO RULE FITS ALL CASES.  Thus I always leave it  up to
the individual to chose the right path, but I am sick and 
tired of software that does not GIVE GUIDANCE on a
real-time basis as to what that path is or should  be in a
given area...  or that does not ate least warn (on a continuous
basis) if an abusive path is being used.

I have always defended anyone's right to send any lenght path
he NEEDS to accomplish an immediate, real-time RARE need.
That is why I am totally opposed to Draconian FILTERING.  But I
also similarly condemn any continued use of an abusive path 
all the rest of the time...  when it is so EASY to show how few
hops are needed to stay within one's ALOHA range...

de WB4APR, Bob

>> But it would be an arbitrary and capricious limit that would
>> prohibit ligitimate uses and needs for communications.

>It wouldn't be arbitrary and capricious.  Each digi operator 
>would set the limit based on the channel capacity in their 
>own area.  Just exactly what you've been asking us all to do
>only if the digi operators do...

Then you have been totally missunderstanding the issue!
I have been telling the local DIGI owners how to set up
their digis to AVOID the routine long abusive paths while
still ALLOWING their digi to be use by anyone with any
real need to use that digi in a specific long path that someone
MIGHT need to fill an immediate need.

That is why I am TOTALLY opposed to any filtering or
draconina measures by local DIGI owners that destroy the
integrity of the APRS network by arbitrary and capricious
hard filter limits.

>It relieves the mobile tracker operator of the need to be constantly
>analysing the local RF environment and changing their path

The mobile has NEVER had to be changing their path.
The path of RELAY,WIDE should work everywhere. 
(except where local digi hacks have screwewed up the network 
by draconian measures)

>Have you forgotten your original purpose of APRS, that of 
>'local situational awareness'?  

Nope, I hve never lost sight of that goal and the ability
to let intelligent thinking people use the network as they 
need while recognizing the needs of ALL OTHERS and
while keeping their burden on the network below their
aloha range...

>  I forget who said it, but many years ago I was told "Every 
>problem we face as humans, was once seen as the 
>miraculous solution to some other pressing problem".

Which is exactly what you would create if you began filtering
out ALL packets greater than 2 hops in your area, simply
because YOU decided that was what you wanted.


Rick Green

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
 temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                                  -Benjamin Franklin

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