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[aprssig] New WIDEn-N Paradigm (MAJOR MOD)

Rich Mazzeo forummail at richmazz.com
Sun Feb 6 16:44:42 UTC 2005

    I agree.  I was the first person in the area to get some of the digis
running under the original new paradigm, but turning WIDEn-n back on is
going to put things right back where we started.  I'm sure in LA this works
fine, but in PA/NJ about only about 20% of the digi owners I've contacted
even respond to emails and APRS messages, let alone change anything.  There
needs to be a plan similar to the original new paradigm (Jan 11th) that at
least tries to make up for both the users AND the digi owners lack of
education about the system.  At this point I'm fairly certain that all of
the digis in NJ will be running RELAY,WIDE,TRACE,WIDEn-n,TRACEn-n until the
transmitter dies or the end of the world, whichever comes first.  That means
if theres a WIDE6-2 that came in from somewhere, it's going to bounce around
at least twice in NJ. (or worse, digipeat once, hop over the wall of new
paradigm digis, and digipeat again in PA.)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wes Johnston" <aprs at kd4rdb.com>
To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" <aprssig at lists.tapr.org>; "Robert Bruninga"
<bruninga at usna.edu>
Cc: <aprssig at lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [aprssig] New WIDEn-N Paradigm (MAJOR MOD)

> Bob...
> I know your recommendations are always grounded in pracitcality.  But
until the
> TNC manu's come out with firmware that lets us limit UIFLOOD or UITRACE
> count (ie only digipeat UIFLOOD < 2-2), this solution is hokey at best.
> The 3rd recommendation below defies belief... (the others too, but I'm
going to
> pick on number 3)
> 1- RELAY, WIDE5-5, WIDE6-6, WIDE7-7 in wilderness areas
> 2- RELAY, WIDE4-4, WIDE5-5, WIDE6-6 in rural areas more than 3 hops from
> Areas
> 3- RELAY, WIDE3-3, WIDE4-4, WIDE5-5 in populated areas where even 3-3 is
> much
> 4- RELAY, WIDE2-2, WIDE2-1, WIDE3-3 with UIFLOOD and UITRACE OFF in Very
> Density local area
> I understand that UIDIGI settings take precedence over UIFLOOD settings.
So you
> can put a callsign in there with the SSID such as WIDE5-5... and when a
> is heard he'd be digipeated using the UIDIGI setting and get one hop and
> more.  But this still does nothing to stop the WIDE5-4 that my neighbor's
> just repeated.  Or the WIDE7-3 that my neighbor just digipeated that
> 350 miles away.  I still end up with my local lan flooded with the lids
> >200 miles away!  In order for this plan to work, every digi has to catch
> WIDE7-7 or WIDE5-5 on the first hop.  And if the first digi to hear
> doesn't "gobble it up" with a digipeat under the UIDIGI rules (ie doesn't
> decrement N and does set the HID flag), then that packet becomes WIDE7-6
> I can't filter out.  There are too many permutations - we're limited to
> the UIDIGI setting.
> The whole point for me to switching away from WIDEn-n was to segment the
> becuase we _didn't_ have a way to filter packets based on the value of
"n".  I
> realize that the SSn-n is still recommended, but I just can't see
> WIDEn-n anymore.  My network is working better than ever since the switch
> SCn-n here.
> If we start digipeating WIDEn-n here, even with the suggested settings,
> end up seeing as much traffic as we used to as the WIDE7-7's and WIDE5-5's
> rolling in at various stages of 7-6,7-5,7-4,7-3,7-2 or 5-4,5-3,5-2,5-1.  I
> saw any WIDE7-7's locally.  I never saw any WIDE5-5's locally... they were
> WIDE7-1 or 7-3... how would I stop them?  Ideally, the digipeaters in VA
> catch these packets under the UIDIGI setting, but practically speaking,
> will not have setup their digipeaters to catch them, and will allow these
> network cluttering packets to propagate outward as WIDEn-n's.
> FWIW, the local digi for me is KC4PL and he runs javaaprs which supports
> limits. It counts all hops in a packet (ie RELAY,WIDE counts as 2 hops,
> RELAY,WIDE5-5 counts as 6 hops) and will not digipeat any packet with >x
> hops(here, x is set for 3 hops).  They don't even get one hop.... They do
> IGATED, but do not propagate on RF.  So a trucker passing thru running
> gets to the internet as he obviously is trying to do, but does not damage
> RF network.
> I do really like the idea of giving the WIDE7-7's one hop... so they
emirge from
> the digi as WIDE7-7*.  This is so much better than budlisting the guy
> when he isn't digipeated, he'll get angry and up his RF power and get very
> creative with his paths.
> Wes
> --

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