[aprssig] New n-N success in North Carolina

Robert Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Sat Feb 12 10:02:01 CST 2005

>>> aprs at kd4rdb.com 02/11/05 11:22 PM >>>
>The problem with the "trap out" method is that even if 
>you trap W7-7,W6-6, and W5-5, you still let the W7-6's 
>and W7-2's thru....

But there wont be any W7-6 or W7-2's if all the digis
trap 7-7 in the first place.  And that is what this is all
about.  Now you may argue: "but even if one digi
lets in a W7-7, then everyone is QRM'd".

But since WIDEn-N under the new N-N Pardadigm 
now traces all packets, we can:
1) Easily see which digi is the leak
2) Easily see who the offender is and EDUCATE him
3) Since his abuse will only work at the one leak point
    and if it is his ego that needs 7-7, and he realizes
    that he is being filtered out everywhere else, then
    it does not make sense that he would continue

We need to think of this design as the best solution
for the overall common good and then go after the
bad apples one at a time.  As it is now, 50% of what
is on the air is part of the problem and it is well known
that "education" will never reach everyone.

So lets get on with the big solution that greatly improves
the network and then solve the few bad apples one at
a time...

There is another way and that is to support the alias of
under the UIDIGI setting.  It'll give ONE more hope to each elligible

Eric, I agree with you...  SSn-n is the way to go.  Ok, fine, we can
support ONE
hop and one hop only for W2-2 people by putting W2-2 in the UIDIGI

Ideally, I'd really like to see is a hop count limit.  If this existed,
it would
be fine for a fellow to run W7-7.  When he wandered in to an area where
2 hops,
his packets would be digipeated until they got to WIDE7-5.  Now imagine
a guy
approaching a metro area.  Some of his packets would go toward the metro
other packets would head off in the rural direction.  Those packets
going into
the metro area's 1 or 2 hop limit digi's would not be digi'ed once those
packets were decremented to W7-5.  Meanwhile the copies of packets going
the rural area's 5 hop limit digi's would continue to be digipeated
until they
got to W7-2.  They could feasible route around the city! What I'm
getting at is
that each area could filter the same packets to varying degrees... 
wow.. what a
shame a hop limit wasn't spec'ed when the UIFLOOD was first written.

I kinda get a chuckle out of this next suggestion.  If I (or someone)
was to
produce a KISS mode controller based on a PIC chip, it would probably
cost $35
(around the price of a tiny trak).  This device could be added on to the
of a kpc3 tnc in kiss mode and powered from pin 13 or pin25 of the
serial port.
 The part I chuckle about is that kantronics wants $60 for firmware, but
would be a neater solution.


Quoting "Eric H. Christensen" <kf4otn at earthlink.net>:
> > 1) SSn-N is still a perfect way to go for most local ops
> >     it remains a great feture of the New n-N Paradigm
> Absolutely!
> > 3) We found a simpler way to TRAP large N hops without
> >     haivng to drop WIDEn-N completely
> This will not work.  Yes, you can trap SOME of the WIDEn-N packets
> but that won't stop 4-4, etc.  PLUS, in NC we are putting additional
> LANs up to support gating of weather bullitens and objects so they
> don't go outside of the area. (We have someone on the Western part of
> Virginia or NC that is sending out bulletins to a very WIDE area.)
> So we don't have room to trap all these bad n-N packets.  By doing
> away with WIDEn-N, we have freed up our network from a lot of packets
> that used to come in from all over.  John's assessment is accurate.
> >
> > 4) LNKn-N will never work since it simply takes too much
> >     coordination and wont be of any value unless all links
> >     in the chain are good.    It has been abandoned
> I disagree.  As you coordinate the SSn-N you coordinate the LNKn-N.
> We ALREADY have THREE digipeaters up on the 95LNKn-N and that was
> within a month.  Not a lot of work there...
> >
> > What you have done is a great positive step.  But please
> > re-visit the New n-N Paradigm site and prepare for one more
> > round of changes.  Basically, send out a bulletin reminding
> > everyone how much better SSn-N (or Wn-N) is than W,W or R,W.
> > Then you can turn back on the WIDEn-N but with the filters on
> > 55,66,77 or what ever limit you want...
> I think the next best thing is to eliminate the WIDE and TRACE.
> >
> > >This has been the best thing that has happened to APRS
> > >to date. I hope we don't back track to our older ways.
> >
> > ANd thanks for trying it.  And dont be upset with this
> > latest change.  We have learned a lot from the user
> > feedback and it will make it even better...
> I disagree.  Even letting WIDE4-4 through would bring in many packets
> from hundreds of miles around and then we are back at square one.
> Eric KF4OTN
> >
> > de WB4APR, Bob
> >
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