Fwd: Re: [aprssig] APRS routing strategies (constantly changing?)

Robert Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Thu Feb 17 18:35:55 CST 2005

>>> henk.de.groot at hetnet.nl 2/17/05 6:00:46 PM >>>
>That's what I'm saying, he/she constantaly needs to 
>change the path to follow the local recommendations! 


I think that is where you are confused about geography
here in the USA.  Look at the map above. There are only
3 cities west of the mississippi where WIDE2-2 is 
recommended and only TWO in the middle fo the country
and only central Florida and the strip from Boston to
Wash DC  on the east coast.  We hope that a traveler
would recognize when he is in one of those 7 areas.
or WIDE4-4 without any problem.  

And since 99% of most APRS operators only travel in
their local area, they NEVER have to change, and when
they do plan a big trip, it is simple to ***think*** about 
what would be the best setting for his trip.

>while speeding on the highway, I call it recless behaviour. 

I just think you are not aware of the geography of APRS.
Even in Europe, there is only ONE place where WIDE2-2
would be recoemmended (look at the Europe density
map on http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/europe.gif 
Only the Netherlands has the density that would suggest
a WIDE2-2.  Only Southern Italy might want to limit it
to WIDE3-3.  All the rest of all of Europe, WIDE4-4
would seem fair...

Remembering those 2 areas in all of europe is not a problem.
Remembring the 7 high density areas in the USA is not
a problem for us..

> Besides that, what front pannel??? The one on the TinyTrak 
>or OpenTracker? You mean the pannel on 
>the HamHud III?

Basically APRS use is for commuting or traveling or for
both.  It is trivial to know what to use for commuting.
It is trivial to know what to use for traveling.  If you do
both, then pick a compromise path.  It is really only
a little common sense..

>I explained what could be simpeler. One alias that is 
>replaced by the DIGI with a path that is very specific 
>for that area, and perfectly matched to the topography 
>and load in that area... That is simpler too me and works
> without looking at some kind of front pannel 
>wile driving (in other words, its also safer).

Fine, if you think replacing 1000 digipeaters all across
the country that took 13 years to get in place is "simple"
then go for it.  When you have accomplished this simple
task, let me know...  In the mean time.  Ill use WIDE2-2
in the Washington DC area and WIDE3-3 if I go
anyhwere else.  I think that is simpler...

>> I see it as an open technical discussion, trying out ideas,
>> constanlty updating the proposals based on good feeback
>> and arriving at what appears to be a consensus.
>You mean when everybody got tired and shut up?

Whatever.  The solution we arrived at was from a lot of input
from all over the country and is elegant in its simplicity and 
ability to do it all with EXISTING TNC's.

>You know it will not happen by magic. Like I said, 
>we had this discussion in 2001 and nothing has changed.

Exactly.  Hams wont upgrade until there is a Clear and
order of magnitude improvement.  And if you had a great
idea in 2001 and no one built it, then that proves exactly
my point.

> In 2008 we will have this discussion again; it will go on 
>until Kantronics stops producing these TNC's and the 
>current TNC are worn out. Say 20 years from now?

Probably.  Unless people with good ideas can think of
a better way to get 1000 cheap hams to go the mountain
top and spend the time to change somehting that seems
to be working just fine...

>> we have with what we got.  I WELCOME smarter
>> digipeaters....but they must be seamlessly introduced
>No, you do not. You only say is but do not act like it.

How can I change anything?  I don't even operate the
local digi anymore.  I like to think of ideas that people can 
implement with what they have...  If they do, fine.  
You have ideas that are good too.  But we both are 
dependent on what the DIGI owners want to do...

Good luck
de WB4APR, Bob

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