[aprssig] Bob, Address the WIDE7-6 Possibility

Stephanie Steele kc7dba at spamcop.net
Tue Feb 22 16:18:31 CST 2005

In the Intermountain West it is critical that the high level digipeaters 
respond to RELAY in order to support low power handheld mobiles used in 
SAR activities. It would be nice to have everyone simply using WIDEN-N 
but we can't risk someone who is not aware or capable of that path being 
unable to access the digipeaters. Locally we encourge users to carefully 
assess their need to use RELAY or any standard alias at home due to the 
coverage afforded by the high level digis in most areas. Removing RELAY 
from our digipeaters is not something I could even consider at this point.

Stephanie, KC7DBA

A.J. Farmer (AJ3U) wrote:
> Then as a general rule, an N digi that has good coverage should not respond
> to RELAY, right?  RELAY should be used very sparingly and then only at
> smaller "home" sites.
> If we leave RELAY as an alias on the big digi's, the bad apples will soon
> figure out they can do RELAY,RELAY,RELAY, right?  Then we are back with the
> same problems.
> I say kill RELAY entirely.  It can be just as bad as WIDE.  Let's just move
> on with WIDEN-N and SSN-N and the advantages of the dupe checking that they
> bring.
> A.J.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aprssig-bounces at lists.tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at lists.tapr.org]
> On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 2:03 PM
> To: n5tim at comcast.net; aprssig at lists.tapr.org
> Subject: Re: [aprssig] Bob, Address the WIDE7-6 Possibility
> RELAY will still be supported.  Just discouraged because
> they cause so many dupes.  If your area can handle all
> the dupes and you want mobiles to keep using   RELAY
> as a first hop, its up to you.  But I wouild suggest that
> first people should try it without the initial RELAY and
> make some statistical comparisons (including counting
> all the dupes) before making up their minds.  Bob
>>>>n5tim at comcast.net 2/22/05 1:17:52 PM >>>
> Looks like this just put the HOME RELAYs out of work.  I disagree with
> the 
> percentages. What to do now?
> 73, John - N5TIM
> At 08:20 2/22/2005, you wrote:
>>>>>mwrobertson at comcast.net 2/21/05 8:36:26 PM >>>
>>>As Bob Bruninga said a few days ago, RELAY,WIDE2-2
>>>in metro areas, and  maybe RELAY,WIDE3-3 out in the
>>>boonies for travelers..
>>Now that we have finalized the New n-N pParadigm,
>>I do not recommend starting a path with RELAY.  Yes,
>>it has value 1% of the time when you are out of range
>>of a digi and in range of a HOME RELAY, but the other
>>99% of the time, that mobile could be generating 2 to 3 times
>>the number of dupes on every single packet he transmits
>>when he hits more than one digi.  It just is not worth it.
>>If there is a black hole, then put a WIDEn-N digi there.
>>WIDEn-N has perfect dupe elimination and so adding
>>a digi only adds ONE copy occasionally as opposed to
>>2 to 3 times as many dupes on every packet from
>>every mobile...
>>These fill-in digis should trap then other N-s so as not
>>to dupe every packet in the area..
>>So my recopmmendation for the last several weeks now
>>has been to drop the leading RELAY and just use
>>WIDE2-2 for local commuting.  WIDE3-3 for travelers
>>east of the Mississippi and WIDE4-4 for truckers and
>>long-haul travelers west of the Mississippi except for
>>obvbious places on the west coast...
>>de WB4APR, Bob
>>aprssig mailing list
>>aprssig at lists.tapr.org 
> John - N5TIM
> www.qsl.net/n5tim for Public Service Info
> http://garland-races.home.comcast.net 
> JUNK - Stuff we throw away.  STUFF - junk we keep.
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