UI-View Bashing (was Re: APRS RF DX? (Was RE: [aprssig] APRS in Atlanta - flooding the network))
schiers at netins.net
Thu Oct 13 09:32:05 CDT 2005
Unrefined out of the box PHG circles based on user entered data that has not
been RF verified for actual coverage is an illusion. PHG for the sake of
PHG, without CALIBRATING the PHG values to reflect ACTUAL digi performance
is a waste of time, and worse.
Bob is correct that many PHG's aren't entered via add-on's for ui-view. What
Bob sometimes doesn't take into account is that probably 75% of the PHG's
circles don't reflect (even remotely) the REAL coverage, because they
haven't been "tweaked" to match the actual coverage, and this is NOT unique
to UI-View...it is a disease that afflicts all the aprs clients that support
PHG in one way or another. This is a user disease, not a client disease. The
users do not know, care or have the time to properly "tweak" the PHG values
so they represent actual RF performance.
Largely, because it requires active user intervention to set it up properly
(and I don't mean entering in the actual values for power/height/gain), it
is boderline useless.
Basically, you have to "fake out" the PHG to match the actual RF coverage of
the digi. Very few people have taken time to do this, so we end up with a
bajillion phg circles that are worse than meaningless, because they create
the impression that a certain coverage exists, when in fact the actual
coverage is far greater (typically) than the PHG circle would indicate by
typing in the actual Power/HAAT/Gain.
Remember how freaked out things get when we talk about changes that have to
be made, even one time, by the users of APRS, like digi-maintainers? PHG
suffers from the same problem, only many times worse, because it creates the
illusion that one only has to enter Power/Height-HAAT/Gain, and everything
is ducky. Well, it isn't ducky.
So...are we better with totally erroneous PHG circles (most of the time), or
none at all, except those that are verified in terms of coverage? Maybe it's
a good thing that UI-View doesn't "natively" support PHG.
The whole issue is silly. PHG as implemented is a farce. If one wanted to
make a valid point in discussing PHG, it wouldn't be in the context of
UI-View, but rather in the context of how to PROPERLY set up PHG so that it
reflects reality...that's the REAL problem, which has ZERO to do with
UI-View or any other client. The requirement that the user "fudge" the
values to reflect reality for PHG to be useful, makes it nearly useless in
practical terms, as most users won't go to the time and trouble to make the
coverage measurements which will allow them to properly fudge the program.
PHG (or the lack thereof) debates are much ado about nothing. PHG "is" the
problem, not anything to do with client software. Thinking it is client
based is not seeing the forest for the trees.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William McKeehan" <mckeehan at mckeehan.homeip.net>
To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" <aprssig at lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: UI-View Bashing (was Re: APRS RF DX? (Was RE: [aprssig] APRS in
Atlanta - flooding the network))
> I'be been looking at PHG rings (in Xastir) recently. What exactly does
> tell me about the network?
> My PHG circle is small, but there are digi's outside of my circle that can
> hear me. And I can hear other stations and not be in their PHG circle.
> there are some stations inside of a digi's PHG circle that do not get seen
> the digi.
> It seems PHG tells you very little about a station.
> Someone educate me please.
> On Wed, October 12, 2005 3:59 pm, Robert Bruninga said:
>> Seeing the PHG on home stations becomes valuable
>> when the digi dies or is flooded out and you want
>> to see who's home stations you can digipeat through
>> to get from point A to B. Usually when you are in
>> this kind of circumstance, it does not work well to
>> then try to ask everyone, "please now enter your PHG
>> because now I need it, even though I never
>> really needed it before"...
> William McKeehan
> Internet: mckeehan at mckeehan.homeip.net
> aprssig mailing list
> aprssig at lists.tapr.org
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