UI-View Bashing (was Re: APRS RF DX? (Was RE: [aprssig]APRS in Atlanta - flooding the network))

hasan schiers schiers at netins.net
Thu Oct 13 13:22:42 CDT 2005

Hi Bob,

You said:

"I'd rather not cater to dumbing down of HAM radio
to plug-and-play where we cannot assume that users
have an idea of their height above average terrain
and its importance in local RF communications."

In response, I say:

That's another problem....very, very few hams have access to HAAT. I think 
it is a very safe assumption that 95% of APRS users have no idea whatsoever 
what their HAAT is. It's not that they are stupid. Busy, perhaps lazy, 
perhaps indifferent, but actual HAAT info is scarcely to be seen. I'll do an 
experiment sometime. I'll ask every single aprs op I talk to what their HAAT 
is and report back the % who actually know. (after I ask them how they 
determined their HAAT). Want to take bets on how low the percentage is going 
to be? This, of course, ignores the problem of how well HAAT matches up with 
actual performance, but I'm not going to quibble.

My only concern is all the extra stuff that has to be done (and it won't be 
in most cases) to arrive at a PHG that is even remotely meaningful.

UI-View displays PHG with an add-on just fine. It seems to be nit-picking to 
be overly concerned that it doesn't do it out of the box. The vast majority 
of ui-view32 users I have talked with are running all sorts of add-ins...it 
is "normal" for ui-view32, as it was designed with add-ins in mind.

It's not that PHG is simply inaccurate....it is terribly inaccurate and 
creates totally false conclusions as it is configured "out of the box" . 
Practically no one I have met in aprs knows how to calculate haat or where 
to get the info to do so. This is a "practical" limitation of the PHG 
concept....yet PHG is out there en masse, giving out completely erroneous 
information (because it's misconfigured).

Tactical use of aprs (I'm sorry to say) is practically insignificant 
compared to static use. (even mobiles are considered static in this 
analysis, because they drive the exact same route day after day after day, 
seeing exactly the same digi's, etc.) They have about as much use for PHG as 
a pig does for wings.

I understand where you are coming from "conceptually". I don't disagree with 
you conceptually.  However, there are two problems to be solved:

1. UI-View32 users need to run the add-in for PHG. When they do run the 
add-in, problem number 2 below surfaces.

2. Anyone purporting to publish PHG data needs to get it right. (or at least 

As I look around at the PHG circles, most of them are not just inaccurate, 
they are hopelessly misleading. (Number 2 above is the culprit)

Both of these are significant problems and they stem from the same source: 
USERS, and the odds are really stacked against you getting this cleaned 
up<vbg>. This is why I made the remarks that PHG is a farce. As it is 
currently presented to the network, it is meaningless in most cases.

The cure is obvious, but it's going to be a struggle.


...hasan, N0AN

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