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[aprssig] Lets Fix New-N now!

keith allen ag4ac at earthlink.net
Tue Oct 25 15:38:30 UTC 2005

Hi Jerome,
		Thanks for the input.  I'll try to respond by line abbreviated.

F. Keith Allen,  AG4AC
President, CCERC
NM, St Clair ARES Nets
My cellphone is a HAM Radio.You want to talk to me, GET A LICENSE!

> [Original Message]
> From: J T <w0jrt at yahoo.com>
> To: <ag4ac at earthlink.net>; TAPR APRS Mailing List <aprssig at lists.tapr.org>
> Date: 10/20/2005 5:38:25 PM
> Subject: RE: [aprssig] Lets Fix New-N now!
> Keith,
> Could the problem be too much RF saturating your
> network?  

This is quite possible.  

I looked at some of the data from findu.com
> for stations in your area and saw some things that can
> Since they are fixed they normally don't need to use
> RELAY (obsolete) or WIDE1-1 to reach a digi. 

I can't answer for other stns but my logic was thus:

The three nearest digis that I know of near my home stn are in fact older
tnc's that to my knowledge still use relay as the myalias line.
Hence, the reason for the "relay".    As for wide1-1, I kind of figured
that one of these folks might switch without informing me.  As for wide, we
also have a couple of those floating around nearby.  Then I use wide 2-2 as
the catch all for the other end.  yes, I agree it may seem like overkill,
but I'm still experimenting with the better mousetrap.
> since the obsolete RELAY or the new WIDE1-1 is only

	Not necessarily obsolete if folks around here still use it.  I will
however be trying to shorten that length on my path.

> Also, some of the fixed stations seem to be
> transmitting with those paths at very high rates --

		I can not answer for others.  I use a 1 minute interval only when testing
an area for reception of APRS signal in the area.  

> Looking at the last 24 hours of data on findu.com from
> your AG4AC-1 mobile, it appears that when you DO get
> to an I-gate it typically only takes 0, 1, or 2 hops,
> not the six that are specified in your path.  This is
> an indication that the problem is due to RF network
> congestion, probably caused by an abundance of
> stations (fixed and mobile) using excessing non-dupe
> checking paths with high beacon rates.

A logical deduction. Sometimes, getting to the IGATE is not my final
intention.  However, neither is cluttering up the network.

> It's a catch-22.  When network performance is bad,
> worse network performance.  The solution is for all
> APRS users (home stations, weather stations, I-gates,
> digis, mobiles) to work together on it.  It's simple
> in theory, but often difficult to get the cooperation
> of everyone involved.


> To show just how far your packets are going, your
> AG4AC-9 digi sending its position with a 5-hop path
> shows up (via RF) on my home station near Kansas City.

Interesting indeed.  I'll definitely work to reduce the path on the -9

> I feel fortunate that here in the Kansas City area
> most  users and nearly all (if not all) digi operators
> have switched to the new paradigm, and that even with
> our relatively high concentration of users the network
> performance is very reliable.  I can use a 2-hop path
> for my 5 Watt bicycle station and routinely get
> excellent coverage.  In fact, I could probably switch
> to a 1-hop path and still get picked up by an I-gate
> just as often.

I'm glad to hear it's working good for you there.   At current, a majority
of the digi's within a 30 mile radius (to my knowledge) do not support the
n-n paradigm.  Therefore, to insure I make it where I feel my signal needs
to go, I have to improvise paths until I find something that works here. 
If you check the STNS nearby, you see very few actual digis that have the
n-n capability.  Thus my dilemma.  I do promise to continue to make it work
better on my end.  Most fo9lks around here that do APRS have had to kind of
suck it up and at least put the relay and wide back into their paths until
more local digis change over.  APRS is useless if folks right around you
can't see you.

I sincerely appreciate all comments and suggestions made by this sig.  73  
Keith in Alabama.

> -Jerome
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