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[aprssig] The best resolution of ---

Charles Gallo Charlie at TheGallos.com
Thu Jan 5 03:12:54 UTC 2006


On 1/4/2006 Robert Bruninga wrote:
(or was it Bill - the quoting is a bit strange at the end - mix of
windows and inline)

> I just hope the inevitable D700 replacement isn't a cell phone...

Heh - with GPS/location based services built into all cellphones by
law, and many carriers allowing you to tap into that data - I'm afraid
that day has already come

Mix that with algorithms like the (mentioned yesterday) Microsoft
Location Finder which is really doing a VERY similar thing to the APRS
spec "Non directional transmitter hunting" (another of those features
rarely implemented - just to keep this on topic) only backwards - the
fox is figuring out where he is, based on what fixed stations he can
hear, and their signal strengths, it almost makes APRS look like
ancient tech

There was a time when GPS was novel, and being able to report and/or
receive your position was "cool stuff"

I think the BIG problem, and where the arguments are coming in here is
people are looking to do "newer","More advanced","stuff" (please note
the quotes), pushing the APRS IMPLIMENTATION (not the spec) out beyond
where it is, in general.

The problem is we have a mix of stuff out there - from dumb trackers,
to old TNCs, to brain dead TNCs that frankly (IMHO) in some ways cause
more problems than they are worth (ahem - Kenwood - ever have users
who keep trying to use the D700s TNC as a general purpose TNC for
things like winlink - hehehehehe snort, giggle - or even using it for
more than basic APRS)

Honestly - APRS is fun, BUT I think we MAY need to develop a NEW spec
- let's call it NAPRS, that does NOT worry about
backwards compatibility with APRS - the "digital, HDTV" version of
APRS that incorporates all the "lessons learned" in developing and
using APRS over the years - maybe it would include such things as
uncertainty circles, geoid type (NAD83, WGS84, UTM, etc - let the
client do the translating = or not - some folks won't care about the
small difference between say, wgs84 and nad83)

Now, I'm NOT saying "lets obsolete APRS" - far from it - in fact, I
would say that the BEST place to stick this is on UHF or HIGHER - 1.2
gig anyone? and run intelligent gateways between then current APRS
network and the NAPRS network - somewhat like the gateways between 10m
6m and 144.390 - maybe some sort of mesh network (hey, if we're going
to dream about doing cool, cutting enge stuff again - dream BIG)

Crazy idea?  Maybe.  Am _I_ up to it - nope, not smart enough -

Let's face it - Bob, you developed the first APRS stuff back on the
Vic20.  Back then, I think we were shelling out, what, about $200 or
$300 for the vic 20, and some of us shelled out a couple hundred more
for each floppy drive (the bang of death, formatting - sigh) - spread
it with a shovel, slice it with an axe, call it a $300 system in 1984
dollars

Let's see a NEW spec, based on the processing power of say a $300 year
2006 system - say, 2 GHz, 256 meg, 40 Gig HD etc - not that we necessarily have to
go that far - and if it can be done in less, fine

Let's not worry about 1 FOOT precision - lets figure Galileo goes
live, the second "C2" signal goes live, we have someone who plays with
stuff - lets figure even survey grade - sub CM

Support the "my car is doing 60 on I-95 stuff" - yes, but encourage
folks to KEEP that on standard APRS - figure on NAPRS being ground
breaking again, not something 20+ years old

Think about it - what could we do WITH A CLEAN SLATE?  Maybe things
like partial position packets (a friend did that with a commercial
APRS like device - cell phone data packets are small)  Store and
forward routing (learn what we can from the old days of email and even
modern IP packet - some messages unicast, some multicast, some
broadcast - as needed - clients acting as intelligent routers - maybe
even ad-hoc, built on the fly routing tables)

Maybe the ability to say "I want WA2GUG-2, KG2V-15, and KC2MMI-15 to get
 my position packets, I want my weather to get routed to the internet
and then to the NWS and that's it" - other folks can listen - but the
system might have enough routing brains to say "OK, my home internet
connection is UP - DON'T transmit the weather packet - or if I do,
don't ask for it to be digipeated - just send via internet" - MMI is
on the road, and I can hear him via wa2jnf, so direct my packet to
JUST wa2jnf, and ask him to send it direct - etc etc.  effectively get
rid of Relay and Wide - everything is directed - and maybe the network
makes sure it gets to an internet gateway, as people are interested -
but that is up to the local operators - and maybe WA2GUG is off to
California for a week, and the system, WITH the gateway says "woah -
that would be hard to do with RF - get it to the internet, get it
transcontinent - pop it out a gateway near GUG in say, LA, and direct
it to him - all in the blind?  In other words, the transmitter doesn't
choose a route, but destinations - and the network chooses the route

Just ideas - good, bad, or indifferent

--  
73 de KG2V

For the Children - RKBA!

If it can't be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion.
 --Lazarus Long





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