[aprssig] Tier 2 Status

AE5PL Lists HamLists at ametx.com
Wed Jun 21 21:16:30 CDT 2006

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Dimse
> Posted At: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [aprssig] Tier 2 Status
> On Jun 21, 2006, at 7:57 PM, AE5PL Lists wrote:
> > There are over 5,000 stations (IGates, clients, and 
> servers) directly 
> > connected to APRS-IS.
> Ummm, this number seems awfully high. How do you arrive at 
> this? In the last hour, the number of position reports 
> received by findU is 9233. This includes objects, weather 
> warnings, and earthquakes.  

When you take a myopic view of things, I can see where you would
misinterpret numbers.  I am looking at a 30 day database based on qac
and qax q-constructs which means that my number is low.

> To add each server to the core, a new person would need to 
> edit their config file to match a template, and start the 
> javAPRSrvr program.  

???  Steve, I understand how a mesh works.  What you conveniently forget
is that the load does not evenly spread out and the issues of
_coordinating_ those servers becomes exponentially more difficult.

> > and getting then necessary OC-3 pipes with high pps routers 
> donated is 
> > unlikely as well.
> I disagree strongly with this statement. As I said, I have 
> had no problems getting such sites donated every time I have 
> asked. There are a lot of APRS users that control sites with 
> fat pipes.

Glad you disagree.  Gee, if my number of 5000 was high and you think
there are maybe only 1000 direct APRS-IS users, and 1% work for ISPs (a
generous percentage) that means (according to your numbers) that maybe
10 people might have direct access to T-3 pipes.  Of those 10, maybe 4
or 5 actually do have direct access and control over DS3 or higher
pipes.  The key word here is control because most routers used by ISPs
will choke on the PPS rate that APRS-IS generates.  If you think that
universities and colleges are a possible solution, second.aprs.net is at
a university and it is bandwidth limited.  I am sorry, but unless you
are high up at a university, you don't get full access to their pipes
and you certainly don't control their network configuration.
first.aprs.net is at a university but the sysop is high enough up in the
university to have the necessary access and control to the university
Internet feeds.

Bottom line: like it or not, the second tier servers are not going away
(there are over 400 of them out there running different software).
Adding more core servers will not accomplish anything significant
because of the base design of APRS-IS and because of limitations that
are "discovered" by those generous individuals that offer up those fat
pipes.  As I said before, instead of trying to slam second tier servers,
try realizing that a bigger core is not the answer and that maybe, just
maybe, the APRS-IS is a reasonable architecture now with tiered server
layout.  If you can't come to this conclusion, then please continue to
beat your head against a wall...

I am sure you will respond trying to defend your position.  IMO, this
thread has run its course.  Nothing you say or do will cause the second
tier servers to go away.  At worst you will mislead some people on this
SIG into thinking that the tiered APRS-IS network is "bad".  Let's move
on to something of more interest.  I am done...


Pete Loveall AE5PL
mailto:pete at ae5pl.net 

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