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[aprssig] Re: Tracker Smart Pathing: user types, alternatives

Robert Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Thu Mar 23 22:26:12 UTC 2006

>>> <apratt at bestbits.org> 03/23/06 2:08 PM >>>
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:42:05 -0500, "Robert Bruninga" wrote:
>> a) But is your wife really looking at FINDU every minute ...
> Of course not.... Proportional Pathing gives me an 
> effective (3 hop) beacon rate of eight minutes. If my 
> digi hit success rate poor - say, 25% - I'm down to 
> 32 minutes.

Ok, for many people, that is still probably good enough
for spousal FINDU monitoring on day trips.    It appears
you want to run 3 hop updates all the time so that you 
get a better hit count in some weak areas, while knowing 
that you are using an abusive path  the rest of
the time with 8 times the QRM load on everyone.

>Yes to three hops, but probably three-minute updates.

Ah, that is better.   3 or 5 minute packets is resonably
fair to others if that's what you must do for your need.

But my point is that if someone needs a higher rate 
closer in,  we certianly hope they will consider setting
their tracker to Proportional Pathing so that their high 
rate packets do not go too far and QRM everyone else 
in half the state of California, yet they will get occasional 
3 hop updates should they find themselves in a 3 hop

Proportional pathing is just another option.  Your
best hope is that everyone else will use it so that
you get 8 times less QRM for your packets.

>[I konw 3 hops] is a bad path in well-connected areas. 
>The whole point of this AUTO-hop-count [digi] idea is 
>to get  a 3-hop route when I need it, and a one-hop 
>route when that's enough.
> Today, I have to pick a single route that will work 
>acceptably well in the WORST areas I pass through; 
>that path is rude and abusive in the BEST areas.

Then I think you should consider that the 30 minute
update using Proportional Pathing, compared to your 
12 minute update (your stated 25% success with 3 min 
packets) is not all that bad considering it is 1/8th the QRM
to everyone else.

>A digi that writes "one hop" into the AUTO path when 
>the local IGate is down will indeed fail me. But I'd 
>have failed in that area anyway if I manually ran 
>WIDE1-1...  , thinking that one-hop IGate was 
>still alive, so I'm no worse off. 

But you have already said that you want to run 3 hops
everywhere.  The sentence above implies that you will 
change your path to 1-1 when you are near a 1-hop 
IGate digi?  I thought you wanted something you could 
set and forget?  That is what the Proportional Pathing 
Option is.

>A local user can manually recover by setting WIDE2-2 
>and removing AUTO until things get worked out. 

Ah?  Now you are saying that whenever the AUTO
digi is not configured properly, that local users will 
have to stop, and  re-configure their tracker (that 
they cannot tell is working or not in the first place) 
when he notices tht the digi is no longer automatically 
inserting the right path because the sysop has not 
gotten around to updating it due to the lost 1 hop

>The digi operator should program the hop count to 
>one or more "reliable" IGates, but we all know it's a 
>crap shoot......
>This [AUTO digi]  idea doesn't require "replacing 
>every TNC digi in the country." I haven't heard 
>yet that it's impossible with current digi hardware..

Ok, ill say it then.  it is impossible to do at every digi
that is based on a TNC, and that is 91% of all digis
in the USA (910 out of about 1000).

>A mobile user with a path like WIDE2-2,AUTO will 
>deliver the capacity advantage of one hop in an 
>urban area that's been upgraded,

Ah, but that can already be done at ANY digi under
the existing New-N paradigm.  It is already done in 
the LA basin and anywhere else where the digi wants
to trap paths to 1 hop.

So again, the AUTO is nice, but I still think it has
problems in ever getting implemented for all kinds
of reasons.

>and the IGate-reaching advantage of three hops in 
>a rural area that's been upgraded, while getting the 
>usual two hops in un-upgraded areas.

Yes, and so can proportional pathing... for a lot
of people who would use it, and that would lessen
the load on everyone.  

And finally... If there really is a 3 hop problem area, 
it is MUCH easier to install an IGate PC somehwere 
within the surrounding tier of digis at someone's
house with internet, then to expect all digis in the 
state to replace their hardware with PC's just
so they can do the same thing with AUTO...

Again, not trying to force anyone to use Proprtional
Pathing -with-Decayed Beaconing, but just thinking
it will be a nice way to reduce QRM for most people
who cre more about 1 and 2 hop updates...

de WB4APR, Bob

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