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[aprssig] Signal Locator WEB page

Robbie, wa9inf mwrobertson at comcast.net
Thu Apr 26 22:14:56 UTC 2007



Robert Bruninga wrote:

>>A few years ago, there was a UI-View add-on, DF Plot. 
>>Any number of mobiles, with ordinary Fox Hunting 
>>equipment, radio, directional antenna, and a knowledge 
>>of "where" the hunter is, would report the bearing 
>>from that spot to a central UI-View operator running 
>>the DF Plot.
>>    
>>
>
>Does the Uiview DF-Plot add-on also do the basic APRS OMNI-DF
>overlaping Signal Strength contours?  
>
No..  The reports use the great triangulation method, very simple to 
understand and demostrate... The Fox is generally very close to the area 
of where the bearings intersect..

>
>The technique noted above depends on properly equiped mobile DF
>units with lots of equipment.  I basically gave up on that way
>back in the 1995 time frame, since we never had the equipment or
>the people when it was needed.
>

No it does not. The normal Fox hunting equipment consisting of a radio, 
directional antenna, and of course an antenuator. Same equipment used by 
several clubs around the Chicagoland area today!

The hunters only need a decent sense of direction, and be capable of 
following simple directions from the UI-View station doing the plotting.

>
>So we added OMNI-Dfing to APRS in hope that APRS could
>concentrate on its knowledge of position of -everyone- and
>what-they-hear and Antenna-Height Range as a much more reliable
>come-as-you-are method of signal origination localization.  Too
>bad it was not universally implemented in all APRS clients so
>that we could be doing this at the push of a button within
>seconds of hearing a request for signal info.. :-(
>
If someone pops up and asks for signal info and bearings because of a 
jammer or whatever, it is a matter of a few calls to either base 
stations or other hams to get bearings and go where the crosshairs say 
the Fox is. An object is placed at the spot by the client software for 
other "mappers" to visualize, then it is just the normal "close in 
sniffers" to finish it up..

>
>Uiview doesn't even provide the fundamental antenna height and
>coverage info without people loading an add-on.  And without
>being able to see instantly what approximate area coverage each
>home station has, then it is hopeless to make any sense out of
>Uiview stations.
>
Sorry to hear you consistantly "bash" another client package the way you 
have over the years! A shame on you Bob.

>
>Checking the DC/Balto area and 235 stations on the air, only 5
>Uiview stations are transmitting their PHG data.  The other 60
>it is impossible to tell if they have a good station/antenna
>hearing out to 50 miles, or hearing out to 1 mile using a rubber
>duck in the basement.  They all look the same.
>And even if these people did want to make an OMNI DF report,
>Uiview without the add-on has no input box for making the report
>and no PHG data on which to base it.
>
I think APRSdos is the only APRS program that uses Omni DF, and whenever 
I look at a map of 640x480, I have a hard time understanding anything, 
it seems the graphics are hard to see now..

>
>So that is why APRS as a group still cannot do simple signal
>localizing which can work so well and  is so easy to do.  That
>is why I give up and ask that at least someone implemnet it in a
>browser application so that we can really nail these signals as
>it would be so easy to do...  Surely someone might be looking
>for a neat project that will revolutionize HAM radio Dfing...
>
I find it hard to conceive interest in a web page of some df'ing in 
another part of the country which would probably be woefully out of 
date, even if I could participate, :-)

Sorry Bob, the more you complain about UI-View, the more I like it... :-)

Robbie

>
>Bob
>
>
>  
>
>>As these reports come in, the operator would report the 
>>location of the 
>>crosshair plot of these reports back to the hunters. If these
>>    
>>
>mobiles 
>  
>
>>are using APRS tracking gear, then the UI-View operator only
>>    
>>
>needs to 
>  
>
>>click on the reporting tracker, enter the bearing reported by
>>    
>>
>the 
>  
>
>>tracker into DF Plot. For those running mobile mapping, an 
>>object will 
>>be placed where the bearings all intersect..
>>
>>For those not running mobile mapping, someone can can direct 
>>the hunters 
>>by voice when needed on another frequency..
>>
>>Robbie
>>
>>R. Simmons wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>From an outsider : IMHO I agree the DF abilities of APRS 
>>>      
>>>
>>have not been
>>    
>>
>>>cultivated and are largely dormant. I have long salivated 
>>>      
>>>
>>over the prospect
>>    
>>
>>>of an effective web-based display with multi-hunter APRS 
>>>      
>>>
>>inputs. Last year I
>>    
>>
>>>succeeded in making a simple PIC-based device that generates 
>>>      
>>>
>>APRS-compliant
>>    
>>
>>>DF messages, and tested it successfully. It was detected and 
>>>      
>>>
>>plotted on
>>    
>>
>>>FINDU.com, but with no DF bearing line. I could pursue it 
>>>      
>>>
>>further and easily
>>    
>>
>>>offer it as a finished product, but without a means of 
>>>      
>>>
>>display, it would be
>>    
>>
>>>pretty pointless.
>>>
>>>Furthermore, I think hams generally don't co-operate on 
>>>      
>>>
>>hunts, they compete
>>    
>>
>>>against each other, ( = social hunts for fun ) so the skills
>>>      
>>>
>( and
>  
>
>>>technology ) required for a co-ordinated "team hunt" never
>>>      
>>>
>really get
>  
>
>>>developed.
>>>
>>>Bob S.
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga at usna.edu>
>>>To: "'TAPR APRS Mailing List'" <aprssig at lists.tapr.org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:17 AM
>>>Subject: [aprssig] Signal Locator WEB page
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>WEB based APRS Direction Finder
>>>>
>>>>APRS has a rich set of Direction Finding tools that have not
>>>>been implemented in many APRS clients.  As such, these
>>>>        
>>>>
>powerful
>  
>
>>>>techniques are rarely used by most operators.
>>>>
>>>>However, if we had a WEB based Direction Finder DISPLAY
>>>>        
>>>>
>system
>  
>
>>>>tied into the APRS-IS, then we would not only leverage the
>>>>        
>>>>
>power
>  
>
>>>>of APRS DFing, but then ALL ham radio operators in the area
>>>>could see the developing solution in real time and we would
>>>>        
>>>>
>get
>  
>
>>>>10 times as much data input!
>>>>
>>>>Please see the OMNI-Dfin technique in APRS:
>>>>http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/dfing.html
>>>>
>>>>The web page would draw the map with the overlaping signal
>>>>strength contours reported by APRS packets.  Browser based
>>>>stations could also enter their report on the same web page
>>>>        
>>>>
>and
>  
>
>>>>add to the display of contours.
>>>>
>>>>This narrows the area down very rapidly to a mile or so.
>>>>
>>>>Any takers?  It really does work.  And all it needs is input
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>from people that have or HAVE NOT heard the signal.  A
>>>      
>>>
>reliable
>  
>
>>>>NOT-HEARD report is even more valuable than a heard report,
>>>>because it blacks out a larger area of where the signal
>>>>cannot-be.  Enough of these, and you can eliminate so much
>>>>        
>>>>
>area,
>  
>
>>>>that it is easy then to focus mnore carefully on where the
>>>>signal may be.
>>>>
>>>>I sure wish I knew how to write active web pages like that.
>>>>        
>>>>
>TO
>  
>
>>>>me, this would be the biggest asset for HAM radio 3rd to
>>>>tracking, and Weather on APRS.
>>>>
>>>>Bob, WB4APR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
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>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
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>>
>>    
>>
>
>
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>  
>





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