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[aprssig] Digipeaters with local sysop rules...

Robert Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Fri Sep 14 01:50:39 UTC 2007


>>> [What I want is a digi where I can control the 
>>> complete path of each packet after it is digipeated.]
>>
>> Such a setting would worry me significantly.
> 
> Why?  IP does this, and we all know how unreliable 
> the IP based internet is...

APRS is not the IP.

To be reliable on demand, APRS must have consistent 
performance expectations for users and not be at 
the whim of each digi owner to be changing the 
path aand distribution intent of the sender,...
 
> The capabilities of the network are not dependent 
> on the intent of  the sender.

Not the capabilities, but the indended DISTRIBUTION of each
users packet is the intent of the sender.  There are local
packets intended for local simplex range, there are packets
intended to get to an Igate, there are packets intended for the
country volunteers, there are packets intended for the WX
spotters, there are packets intended for the club, etc, and I
can go on and on.  I say, ONLY THE SENDER knows where he wants
his packets to go to meet his immediate per-packet communication
need, within the general limits for routine operations set for
the health of the network.

>> The New-N paradigm has gone a long way towards 
>> bringing consistency to the network without 
>> resorting to draconian and arbitrary modification 
>> of user packets by individual digi owners...
> 
> If proportional pathing is so great, why not implement 
> it at the digi so it doesn't matter what the "dumb" 
> tracker setting are?  

For exactlly the reason I state.  The DIGI owner cannot possibly
come up with a rule that fits ALL needs.  Only the sender knows
what his immediate-right-now-needs are for the distribution of
his immediate right now packet.  As soon as the digi owners
start making draconian rules that change the intent of the
sender, then APRS consistency and reliabilty and expectations
fall completely apart and the network becomes hacked up and
unreliable to meet the varrying needs of the users.

> The digi could say "hmm, this guy got three hops 
> last time, but that was 62 seconds ago so he 
> gets one hop this time."

On what basis can any digi make such draconian decisions about
my packet.  I, the sender am the one responsible for my packet
to meet my immediate needs.  Most of the time I need my packet
to be proportionally pathed, so I set my path that way. But
occasionllay I need the same radio to have a fixed 1 minute rate
for an event.  Or just a demo.  The LAST thing I want to have to
do each time I have a different need, is to have to negotiate
with some absentee digi sysop to have to make a manual change
for me.  Draconian rules by individual digi owners will
undermine the integrity of the APRS system. 

> Argh, I should keep my mouth shut... and not let my 
> self get sucked into commenting, but networking is a 
> noticeable part of my day job and the serious lack 
> of capability in the APRS infrastructure bothers me.

APRS at 1200 baud sharring a common VHF frequency among ham
radio operators for local situational awareness and information
exchange is so different from the IP, that it is dangerous to
try to make any comparisons.  The IP is designed for 99.999% use
by appliance operators.  That is why in the case of the IP, it
depends on the brilliance of network designers like you to make
it work.

On the other hand, Ham radio operators are supposed to know how
the RF channel works, be able to respond and re-constitute
minimal communications with only what they bring with them...

Bob, WB4APR





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