[aprssig] Multiple SSID's from one station, with the New N Paradigm.

Dave Baxter Dave at emv.co.uk
Mon Dec 15 02:52:21 CST 2008

Hi Keith....

Nope, the sending station only used one ssid -15.  There is something
elsewhere in the network (such as it is) that is causing this.   It is
one of the several reasons why England has not moved to Newn-N in the
past.   There is strong anecdotal evidence that misconfigured D700's are
a probable cause.

Believe me, trying to explain to several people who still think that the
new WIDEn-N system is the same as WIDE (and not tracable) is a near
vertical struggle.  They keep talking about this and not making clear
which paradigm they are talking about, just to add to the confusion.


Dave G0WBX

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith VE7GDH [mailto:ve7gdh at rac.ca] 
> Sent: 13 December 2008 22:09
> To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [aprssig] Multiple SSID's from one station,with 
> the New N Paradigm.
> Dave G0WBX wrote...
> > Following the recent IARU R1 meeting in Cavtat, and the resulting 
> > recommendation that Region 1 adopts the Newn-N paradigm...
> I was pleased to hear that. There's a lot to be said for 
> having universal settings that will work everywhere without 
> having to reprogram as you travel.
> > several people in the UK APRS network have been 
> investigating how best 
> > to adopt it.  Notwithstanding that many think it's not necessary to 
> > change from RELAY,TRACEn-N to WIDE1-1,WIDEn-N etc, for many 
> reasons, 
> > not least this following behaviour seen on air..
> > 2008-12-08 14:36:12 UTC:
> > G7III-15>APRS,MB7UW*,WIDE5-3,qAR,G0CGL-12
> > :!5124.12N/00046.23W& Test Dup SSID: W5-5
> > 2008-12-08 14:36:21 UTC:
> > G7III-14>APRS,MB7UW*,WIDE5-3,qAR,G0WKM-2
> >:!5124.12N/00046.23W& Test Dup SSID: W5-5
> > 2008-12-08 14:36:25 UTC:
> > G7III-13>APRS,MB7UW*,WIDE5-2,qAR,G0WKM-2
> > :!5124.12N/00046.23W& Test Dup SSID: W5-5
> > 2008-12-08 14:36:36 UTC:
> > G7III-12>APRS,MB7UW*,WIDE5-1,qAR,G0WKM-2
> > :!5124.12N/00046.23W& Test Dup SSID: W5-5
> > Note the decrementing SSID of G7III, this is caused by a digi 
> > somewhere in the network, but is proving illusive to track 
> down. G7III 
> > of course only used one SSID, -15.
> >
> > It is (again I'm told) one of the main reasons why the UK (well, 
> > England at least) has stuck with RELAY,TRACEn-N as it doesnt happen 
> > with that path method.
> In North America, we have made WIDEn-N traceable and the old 
> TRACEn-N isn't used... except for a few hold-outs. We could 
> instead adopt TRACEn-N and make that traceable againa, but 
> that would involve a change for many thousands of users. Not 
> that it makes a lot of difference, but WIDEn-N saves one byte 
> compared to TRACEn-N, but of course the length of the 
> digipeated packet increases each time it is digipeated. 
> However, the advantage is in being able to see the actual 
> path and no dupes. Yes, you have tht now with the old 
> TRACEn-N, but I think it is a very worthwhile goal to have 
> universal settings.
> RELAY isn't traceable and can lead to dupes and ping-ponging 
> between digis.
> In the example above, it appears the SSID was changed by the 
> originating station... G7III-15, G7III-14, G7III-13, 
> G7III-12. The beacon comment indicates "Test Dup SSID". Are 
> you saying that G7III only transmitted with one SSID? If so, 
> something screwy is going on.
> > Someone has said this...   "...there is a D700 somewhere 
> with UIFLOOD
> > set with NOID enabled." Is this the case, or is there 
> something else 
> > happening?
> I'm not sure what is causing it.
> > Was this odd behaviour seen in the USA when the New WIDEn-N 
> system was
> > first rolled out?   If so, how did you track it down and fix it?
> No. There was a transition period where most digis and mobile 
> stations changed over, but I've never heard of what was shown 
> in the examples you provided going on if the originating 
> station wasn't changing the SSID.
> Perhaps someone within earshot of G7III and some of the 
> nearby digis might be able to observe what is going on. The 
> WIDEn-N should decrement. 
> The callsign-SSID of the originating station should most 
> definitely be changing.
> 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
> --
> "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"

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