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[aprssig] Different UI-Path's etc, (was RE: Time to UPGRADE obsolete DIGIS!)

John Ronan jronan at tssg.org
Mon Jun 9 10:55:47 UTC 2008

On 9 Jun 2008, at 10:08, Dave Baxter wrote:

> Hi...
> From my own personal observations, as a part time APRS user, and "fill
> in" digi owner.  (Fireproof suit ready!)
You own a fireproof suit... lucky you ;)

> The "problem" in the UK, is that what particular UI "Path" to use, is
> not regulated or enforced by any "Authority" of any kind.
> Notwithstanding, the unattended operating restrictions we have for  
> some
> situations.
> Plus of course, the default "out of the box" settings of one  
> particular
> very popular APRS program that are somewhat dated now, and so many
> people do not expect to have to sit down and truly "Read" the manual
> before using a program or whatever.
Sure why would we need to read manuals.. that would only make sense ;)

> Currently (so I believe) the "recommended" UK path setting is
> "RELAY,TRACEn-N", functionally (I believe) the same as (or very  
> similar
> to) "WIDE1-1,WIDEn-N" (someone tell me different if need be)   Most  
> based digi's do have some sort of dupe checking, when using RELAY,  
> that
> I also know, so the "RELAY ping-pong" problem is nowhere near as  
> bad as
> it could be.
Functionally quite similar, but, things can go a bit nuts when some  
joker puts in RELAY, RELAY, RELAY ;)

> This is currently being propagated by the APRSUK list...
> "Maximize the capacity of our network use APRS,TRACE3-3 Mobile  
> Trackers
> use RELAY,TRACE2-2
> Please do not use WIDEn-n or WIDE in your unproto address and digi
> setup"
If the UK is hell bent on having TRACE traceable fine, but a question  
that could be posed what would be the problem with having WIDE  
traceable as well?
> Other variations (the n-N settings) can bee seen on RF bourn packets.
> But, there are also many travellers from Europe (where WIDEn-N is  
> used)
> so you often find frustrated continental truckers with Ham licences  
> and
> APRS, who just don't understand why their APRS messaging fails when  
> they
> come to the UK as a result, and take some convincing they need to  
> change
> settings to make it work again.
With some justification though. If you've driven 1500 miles or so and  
its worked fine, and then it stops working.. you may not know for a  
few hours if your driving....
> Of course, with "just a radio" a D7 or D700/710?  It is not  
> possible to
> see what path is in use (certainly not with a D7) you have to "poke  
> and
> hope" to try and make things work.
> What is often quoted in the UK, is that the WIDEn-N paradigm is not
> traceable, where as TRACEn-N is.
Which is bogus, the WIDEn-n paradigm is fully traceable, thats the  
whole point.
>   Now, I do know that the New Paradigm
> can be traceable as well, depending on digi settings etc.  But, is  
> full
> traceability really a good thing, with "Long" paths, that sometimes we
> *Need* to use here due to the fragmented i-gate coverage, as the  
> packets
> just get longer and longer.
That is a very good question.

Here's another, why does every packet need to get to an I-Gate?  We  
operated a AREN (ARES/Raynet) event recently where very few packets  
made it to an I-Gate, they didn't need to, it was a tactical net.

> OK, so it's nice to see where a packet has
> been on occasions, but once it's at it's destination, who cares how it
> got there, just that it did?   It's a pity there is not a way (that I
> know of) where a user can select if their packets are traceable or  
> not.
Well there is, pick something maybe 'gateme' or some other SSID and  
(someone jump in and correct me if I'm wrong) set your UIFLOOD  
parameter to be it (actually isn't that what WIDEn-n is currently  
doing in the UK, as its be default non traceable)

> The idea being, to only turn traceability on, for diagnosis or network
> maintenance use.
If you could get everyone to agree on it, then I think we'd have to  
give you a new job.. seeing as "God" is already used.. how about some  
other saintly position ;)

> I won't go on any more, there is already enough here to start another
> flame war...    I personally wish that we all could agree and use just
> one method, and at the moment I personally think that the "New  
> WIDEn-N"
> paradigm could be the way to go.   But, it's not me you've got to
> convince....
I got booted from a list already (I forget which) for suggesting (in  
exasperation it has to be said) that traceable WIDEn-n had to be more  
efficient than traceable TRACEn-n, as there was one less character in  

> Oh yes, as to long paths etc.  For some silly reason, I regularly see
> beacons reporting coastal lighthouses etc, when about as far from the
> coast as I can get!
>   Just one example of perhaps inappropriate
> beaconing that seems endemic in the UK at the moment, clogging up the
> channel in some places.  That and the odd i-Gate that insists on
> spitting out Eastern European, or US APRS traffic from the IS to RF,
> with a long path set, just for maximum "effect".   Where as in other
> places you might as well have unplugged the antenna, as there is zero
> APRS coverage at all.
Then I guess you've got some educating to do.

> Tin hat on, fire extinguisher at the ready...
G'd luck.

de John
John Ronan <jronan at tssg.org>, +353-51-302938
Telecommunications Software &  Systems Group,  http://www.tssg.org

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