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[aprssig] South/central virginia and Tennessee

Robert Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Thu Jun 19 18:03:00 UTC 2008

Thanks for the reply and I am excited to see your interest in
APRS.  Let me make a few comoments if I may...

> 1. High level digipeaters (mountaintop) should 
> not respond to Wide1-1, that is what fill ins are for? 

Actually, every digi has to respond to WIDE1-1, since it is very
rare for a mobile to be in range of one.  All the rest of the
time, the mobile is in range of a big wide and so all of the big
wides also have to respond to WIDE1-1 too.  This is not a
problem, since the big digi will respond first and if there is a
second copy coming in from a local fill-in WIDE1-1, then that
second copy will be ignored.

This is the #1 advantage of the New-N paradigm.  With the old
RELAY,WIDEn-N system, the second copy arrived as DIGI1,WIDEn-N
and got duplicated all along the paths multiple times by every
digi.  This multipled the DUPE problem sometime 3 to 5 times the
level of QRM.

> 2. Repeater objects. I plan on implementing this myself on 
> a fill-in digi, not the standard I know, but better than 
> nothing. I am considering a 2 hop path to blanket the area. 

Thanks for your efforts, but that is actually not a good thing
to do.  That causes your object to be SPAM over all kinds of
areas where the voice repeater cannot possibly be worked in all
that area.  I'd much rather not see any voice repeater, then to
see frequenceis, and go to the effort of tuning them in, only to
find that I cannot work them.

Again, keep that object DIRECT.  Unless you can convince
yourself that with ONE hop, that everyone in the footprint of
ALL surrounding digis can somehow hit that voice repeater from
everywhere in their footprints.  It is impossible for any voice
repeater to cover the area of 2 hops in all directions that a
normal packet takes.  SO 2 hops should never-ever be used.  That
is why we strongly discourage any local frequency objects form
home stations (that are usually set to 2 hops).

The other reason why we don't want objects from home stations is
because they QRM the channel.  The only place for these objects
is to be originated AT the digis.  Because only the digis can
hear everything in the area, and only TX the object when the
local channel is clear.

> I will be setting up a simplex IRLP/Echolink node 
> soon on 440 that I will be beaconing as well. 

This is great!  Yes, put out that node object is perfect...
But still, only in the area where it can be hit.

> Ideally I think just one high level digi should implement this
> for the repeater that is used most often in this area.

Yep, that is the idea:
1) Every digi has a coverage area.
2) The DIGI must inform its users in that area of the frequency
3) The frequency should not become SPAM in any other areas.

> It makes it difficult for end users such as myself to 
> figure out the "best path" to get a packet out.

Yep, and that is why we began 4 years ago to eliminate all paths
but one.  WIDE2-2 should work everyhwere.  (or WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1
for mobiles), but some areas just have not made the change... To
simp0lify it for everyone.

> How can I as a user make APRS better in my area? I encourage
> I know that uses APRS to run the suggested settings, but I
still feel
> like it's a constant uphill battle.....

Welcome to the crusade!

Bob, Wb4APR
> On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Robert Bruninga 
> <bruninga at usna.edu> wrote:
> >> Looks like a rogue mobile on RF...
> >> It came through our area about 4 days ago....
> >
> > Stephen, ah, glad to find someone in the area.  I hope I can
> > enlist you to incite some progress on the digipeatrs in the
> > area.
> >
> > I was disappointed during my 300 mile drive along I-81
> > surrounded by digipeaters on mountains on both sides for 5
> > not to ever see once, a recommended voice repeater object
> > up on my APRS radio.  I appologize if there was one and I
> > it.  But the digipeaters in that area are missing a great
> > opportunity to the amateur radio mobile public.
> >
> > Every APRS digipeater is responsible for 3 things:
> > 1) Digipeating local actiivty
> > 2) Announcing its New-N capabilities
> > 3) Transmitting the locally recommended VOICE repeater
> > object for mobiles in its immediate footprint.
> >
> > Bottom line.  APRS is an INFO distribution system!  If a
> > is in range of ANY APRS digipeater, then his APRS system
> > show three things:
> > 1) Packets from all local activity
> > 2) Information on the digi's capabilities
> > 3) The recommended Voice Frequency in that immediate area.
> >
> > I ask that all digipeater owners in the country get
motivated to
> > complete this third aspect of the New-N paradigm.  Please
> > all about it.  Just Google the words "APRS localinfo"
> > the quotes.
> >
> > I think Eastern Tenessee was also rather bleak and there is
> > New-N support through Knoxville I think.  Here are my recent
> > tracks.  If anyone knows how to get a different scale
> > USA map from FINDU, let me know.  All I can find is the USA
> >
> >
> > &start=1000
> >
> > On that link you can see the gaps around Knoxville and
> > Ohio.  We need to educate the country that although RF APRS
is a
> > purely 100% local RF system, that it does have
responsibility to
> > transitent mobiles as part of a national system.
> >
> > Clubs (even without any APRS members) should be embarassed
> > have their area be a black hole to the motoring amateur
> > public.
> >
> > Can we build up a map of black holes and appeal to the
> > ham radio community to fill them even if they don't use
> > That is why I feel that integrating LOCAL voice freqeucny
> > on APRS is so important.  It makes the local ham (non-aprs)
> > aware of APRS every time an APRS use comes up on a visiting
> > repeater and says "I saw your repeater on APRS, thought I'd
> > check in..."  That may be the first visiting mobile to check
> > to that repeater in a week!  So many of them have PL's that
> > without this local info LIVE, it is hard to visit these
> >
> > Thanks, Bob, WB4APR
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > aprssig mailing list
> > aprssig at lists.tapr.org
> > https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
> >
> -- 
> Stephen Brown - ARS K1LNX
> Johnson City, TN EM86uh
> http://www.k1lnx.net

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