[aprssig] Kenwood T/G-Overlayed Diamond

Bob Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Sun Sep 25 14:45:23 CDT 2011

Angels on a pin?

>> All & symbols are Gates, so it makes sense to have 
>> a G on it and then to indicate what type with the overlay.
> "All" is a bit stretched and apparently isn't really
> the case, at least from
> http://www.aprs.net/vm/DOS/SYMBOLS.HTM (Feb 16, 2001):
>     |------+----------------------+------------------|
>     |&     |HF GATEway            |NUMBERED DIAMOND  |
>     |------+----------------------+------------------|

Thank goodness APRS is not stuck back in 2001 and is a living, growing system meeting the evolving needs of its users and the growing numbers of Gates.

> And I've seen other references that describe \& as a
> "Numbered Diamond".

Of course there are.  But they are all out of date.   The official use of the symbol for  IGates goes back to 2006 and then all Gates to 2007.

> (25 Mar 2008) that says:
> \&  OG# OVERLAY GATE I=2way, R=1way
>  But that's only for two specific overlays (I and R)

Because the format of that table only allows about 32 characters for the description so it is impossible to enumerate all possible Gates...

> being Gates.  And even the current definition
> (http://www.aprs.org/symbols/symbolsX.txt revised 19
> Sep 2011) really only says I, R, T, and 2 overlays
> are implied "Gates"

Same problem.  Only 32 characters available to cover 36 different possible Gate overlays.

> We talk about expanding the symbol set, and allowing
> more specific overlay definitions, there's GOT to be
> other uses of a Numbered Diamond than just Gates.

I just scanned for all 36 possibilities.  Here is he usage:

1250 D Star
 880 I gates
 140 RX only Igates
  25 TX Igates
  25 G gates
  18 IRLP gates
  25 P PSK gates
  10 S Sat gates
   4 J Japan gates
   3 E Echolink gates
   3 1 gates (W1 and 1Watt)
   2 X gates
   2 9 Gates (9600 baud)
   2 L gates (IRLP)
   8 other overlays 1 station each

I think that the D STAR is the only significant exception to the GATE USAGE, unless you accept their terminology for their "gateway" software at every D star node stack?

> Even the "gold standard" symbol set at
> http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/APRS_symbols.htm shows a
> plain black diamond at the \& entry. 

The gold standard is http://aprs.org/symbols.html but of curse depends on the WA8LMF for the actual graphics file that has not been updated in a while...

> Those of us trying to support and implement this 
> stuff, we can only work from what is written down, 
> not what may be implied, intended, or even though of.
> We can only work from the specific words.

Then go to APRS.ORG for questions.

> the newest overlay-specific specification from
> http://www.aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt is
> inconsistent about defining the non-overlayed
> alternates for some symbols, in particular the
> non-overlayed alternate \& is missing from (and
> should say \& Numbered Diamond (the original
> definition) IMHO):

Yes, I am trying  to make that list include the primary and secondary examples as well.  Ill add it to that one.

> /& = HF Gateway  <= the original primary table definition
> I& = Igate Generic (please use more specific overlay)
> R& = Receive only IGate (do not send msgs back to RF)
> T& = TX igate with path set to 1 hop only)
> 2& = TX igate with path set to 2 hops (not generally good idea)

> Just because the most common use was with a G
> overlay, I personally think it was a mistake for
> Kenwood to make their default base symbol appear as
> if it had a G Overlay when (hopefully, anyway) the
> actual overlay character would be displayed right
> beside the graphic.

Those that have the graphic overlay machinery to place the overlay over the center of the symbol should do so.  Those that don't and place the overlay to the side, I have no objection to having a G there, since 99.94% are gates.

By the way, thanks for reading these details and finding these inconsistancies!

Bob, Wb4APR

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