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[aprssig] [These] Mobile Digipeating

Earl Needham earl.kd5xb at gmail.com
Tue Sep 20 13:47:03 UTC 2011


Appears my attribution may have been incorrect -- at this point, I don't
know WHO stated "repeating is repeating".

7 3
Earl
KD5XB


On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Earl Needham <earl.kd5xb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Negative, Doc.  See
> http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-clarifies-what-constitutes-an-amateur-radio-repeater
>
> "03/23/2009
>
> 'In December 2007, Gary Mitchell, WB6YRU, President of the Northern
> California Packet Association (NCPA <http://www.n0ary.org/ncpa/>), filed a
> Petition with the FCC, asking for the Commission to clarify the definition
> of a repeater. According to Part 97, Section 3(a)(39)<http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/pdf/47cfr97.3.pdf>,
> A repeater in the amateur service is "[a]n amateur station that
> simultaneously retransmits the transmission of another amateur station on a
> different channel or channels."
>
> 'Mitchell sought clarification on the word "simultaneously," asking if it
> referred to the signal information being retransmitted, or to the fact that
> the receiver and transmitter must both be active at the same time while
> acting on the same signal information. On March 23, 2009, the Commission
> clarified that even if there is a slight delay between what is received and
> what it transmits (as in the case of D-STAR and other digital repeaters), it
> is considered simultaneous if the receiver and transmitter are both active
> at the same time."
>
>
> Vy 7 3
>
> Earl
>
> KD5XB
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Dr. John <w3ate at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> **
>> Lynn,
>> Repeating is repeating either simples or duel.
>> The FCC, stated clearly states this.
>>  The only unit's that are repeaters and in mobile mode are as example
>> mini repeaters in police cars, like the state police used when they enter a
>> facility and in remote areas.
>> Theses units were made by Midland and some other companies. But they were
>> registered.
>> John W3ATE-8
>>
>>  *From:* David Nichols <dnchls at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2011 10:32 PM
>> *To:* 'TAPR APRS Mailing List' <aprssig at tapr.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating
>>
>>  All of this brings up another issue. From the little I’ve been able to
>> gather about mobile digipeating, and I agree with the statement below ( I
>> believe temporary re-locatable is a better term), it is for temporary
>> emergency use. If this is correct, what constitutes “emergency”. Could I
>> justify using it as described for practice purposes? I practice, on the
>> average, twice a week, for 1-2 hours. I would hate for my next posting to
>> you folks to be from Leavenworth after my first digipeating session J. Or
>> for that matter, would I be getting nasty-grams from the APRS community?
>> Otherwise, I think this might fit my needs. I could also use it on actual
>> searches, especially if I drive a ways from Incident Base to the subject’s
>> place last seen, which has been the case several times.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> dave****
>>
>> N5FMA****
>>
>> *From:* aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Jim Alles
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2011 9:52 AM
>> *To:* TAPR APRS Mailing List
>> *Subject:* Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Besides, we really aren't talking about mobile digipeating.  That is not
>> recommended for APRS, either.  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> I would call it a re-locatable digipeater, others might use the term
>> portable.   It is temporary, fixed use.****
>>
>> Peace,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Jim A. KB3TBX****
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) <
>> ldeffenb at homeside.to> wrote:****
>>
>> A digipeater is not a dual-frequency repeater, but a receive and
>> re-transmit on a single frequency.  There is no pre-registration required in
>> the United States that I'm aware of.
>>
>> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 ****
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/17/2011 8:32 AM, Dr. John wrote:****
>>
>> Mobile repeaters in the amateur environment is not authorized. As
>> repeaters need to be registered at a fixed position
>>
>> Dr. John Gregory /W3ATE-8
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Tom Russo" <russo at bogodyn.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 1:02 AM
>> To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" <aprssig at tapr.org>
>> Subject: Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating****
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:34:30PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron
>> collision of the <dnchls at gmail.com> flavor, containing:****
>>
>> I am in search and rescue and use APRS so others can keep track of me.***
>> *
>>
>>
>> You're in good company.****
>>
>> I
>> live in New Mexico where we have many digipeaters on mountain tops, but we
>> still have many dead zones.****
>>
>>
>> I've been watching your tracks.  I'm not sure the dead zones are as dead
>> as
>> all that.  Still, there are some notable places where there are searches
>> and
>> that have spots where you can't be heard.****
>>
>> I have a YAESU VX-8DR ht that I carry with me
>> both when practicing and on actual searches. I am considering buying a
>> Kenwood TM-D710A. I would like to use the 710 in my mobile as a digipeater
>> to either get back to search base on a search or to a mountain digi when
>> I'm
>> practicing so my family can know where I'm at on APRS.fi. I would
>> typically
>> be within a couple of miles from my truck when I transmitted an APRS
>> signal
>> from my ht. How much power does the 710 transmit when in digipeater mode?
>> ****
>>
>>
>> It transmits with the same power that you have set for its own APRS
>> transmissions.****
>>
>> Would this be a situation where using a mobile would be useful? Presently,
>> it just doesn't seem I have the punch I need when using the ht.****
>>
>>
>> It would help if your truck is generally within range of your handheld,
>> the
>> truck is in a good place where it is getting digipeated, and you don't
>> have
>> terrain in between you and the truck that prevents the truck from hearing
>> you.
>>
>> In this case you could use your truck's callsign as the first hop in your
>> digi path, and WIDE2-2 next in the path.  That'd let your truck beacon you
>> with more ooomph.
>>
>> The downside of this is that if you wind up in a spot where your truck's
>> radio can't hear you, you won't get anywhere even if a WIDE can hear you,
>> because they won't premptively digipeat before your truck.
>>
>> It's unfortunate that Yaesu chose not to implement "Proportional Pathing"
>> in the
>> VX-8*R series radios.  The VX-8R lets you set 8 paths, but rather than
>> cycling through them, it simply concatenates them for every transmission.
>> I'm
>> unfamiliar with the VX-8DR, maybe it does have proportional pathing.  With
>> proportional pathing, you can set multiple digi paths, but rather than
>> using
>> them all at once, it cycles through them for each transmission.  Then you
>> could have "TRUCK,WIDE2-2" for every third transmission,
>> "WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2" for every third transmission, and "WIDE2-2" for every
>> third.
>> That would take care of making sure that at least SOME of your packets get
>> to a wide digi --- either directly, or through your truck, or through a
>> fill-in.****
>>
>> Unfortunately, the people I know both in SAR and amateur radio have never
>> played with mobile digipeaters and are pretty clueless on the matter.****
>>
>>
>> Clueless?  I don't think that's a fair statement.
>>
>> To date, most SAR activities in the state have managed without pressing
>> need
>> for mobile digis.  NM SAR Support's comms trailer does have a TNC
>> programmed
>> to digi WIDE1-1, so if your path is WIDE1-1, WIDE2-2 (which is OK in NM
>> for
>> low-powered stations and ONLY low-powered stations... there was a big
>> discussion on that subject recently, and you should check the archives
>> about it, I won't open that can of worms again), then the comms trailer in
>> base will serve as a fill-in digi if needed.  We also have a portable digi
>> we
>> can place in the search area when necessary.  It is rarely necessary, but
>> it
>> does get deployed now and then.
>>
>> You should also set your D710 to do TEMPn-N digipeating, but I'm sure
>> Bob B. will pipe in here quickly about that one.  Right now, very few
>> people
>> in the SAR community have their radios set up for it, so counting on the
>> availability of TEMPn-N on searches is not a safe bet just yet.  But if
>> you
>> set your own truck to do TEMPn-N, then when you know you aren't reaching
>> a wide with your handheld on a search, and you know you can hear your
>> truck,
>> you can tinker with your path to use TEMPn-N for a while to be sure of
>> getting
>> out.  You'd use "TEMP1-1,WIDE2-2" in that case, and as long as your truck
>> can hear you you're good.
>>
>> One thing you should NOT do is set your truck to digipeat WIDEn-N as if it
>> were permanent infrastructure.  Some folks in NMSAR did do that for a
>> while
>> and it was a terrible mistake --- it meant that ALL traffic heard by the
>> incident comms trailer was getting digipeated if it had any wide hops
>> left.
>> That meant the APRS radio in the trailer was transmitting all the time,
>> and
>> desensing lots of nearby voice radios every few seconds.
>>
>> --
>> Tom Russo    KM5VY   SAR502   DM64ux          http://www.swcp.com/~russo/
>> Tijeras, NM  QRPL#1592 K2#398  SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM
>> "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide
>> stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey
>>
>>
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>> ** **
>>
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