[aprssig] [These] Mobile Digipeating

[Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)]

Well, maybe in the negative future?

Check into the Yaesu FTM-350 mobile and VX-8R HT along with the Kenwood 
D72 HT.

Just be aware that the Yaesu's are closed systems.  You can't access the 
APRS information in them nor transmit through them without adding a 
traditional external TNC.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 9/20/2011 11:15 PM, David Nichols wrote:
>
> Is anyone aware of plans to integrate a gps into a mobile transceiver 
> (Yaesu or Kenwwod) in the not too distant future?.
>
> *From:*aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] *On 
> Behalf Of *Earl Needham
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2011 7:47 AM
> *To:* TAPR APRS Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [aprssig] [These] Mobile Digipeating
>
> Appears my attribution may have been incorrect -- at this point, I 
> don't know WHO stated "repeating is repeating".
>
> 7 3
> Earl
> KD5XB
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Earl Needham <earl.kd5xb at gmail.com 
> <mailto:earl.kd5xb at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Negative, Doc.  See 
> http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-clarifies-what-constitutes-an-amateur-radio-repeater 
>
>
> "03/23/2009
>
> 'In December 2007, Gary Mitchell, WB6YRU, President of the Northern 
> California Packet Association (NCPA <http://www.n0ary.org/ncpa/>), 
> filed a Petition with the FCC, asking for the Commission to clarify 
> the definition of a repeater. According to Part 97, Section 3(a)(39) 
> <http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/pdf/47cfr97.3.pdf>, A 
> repeater in the amateur service is "[a]n amateur station that 
> simultaneously retransmits the transmission of another amateur station 
> on a different channel or channels."
>
> 'Mitchell sought clarification on the word "simultaneously," asking if 
> it referred to the signal information being retransmitted, or to the 
> fact that the receiver and transmitter must both be active at the same 
> time while acting on the same signal information. On March 23, 2009, 
> the Commission clarified that even if there is a slight delay between 
> what is received and what it transmits (as in the case of D-STAR and 
> other digital repeaters), it is considered simultaneous if the 
> receiver and transmitter are both active at the same time."
>
> Vy 7 3
>
> Earl
>
> KD5XB
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Dr. John <w3ate at earthlink.net 
> <mailto:w3ate at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>
> Lynn,
>
> Repeating is repeating either simples or duel.
>
> The FCC, stated clearly states this.
>
> The only unit's that are repeaters and in mobile mode are as example 
> mini repeaters in police cars, like the state police used when they 
> enter a facility and in remote areas.
>
> Thesesunits were made by Midland and some other companies. But they 
> were registered.
>
> John W3ATE-8
>
> *From:*David Nichols <mailto:dnchls at gmail.com>
>
> *Sent:*Monday, September 19, 2011 10:32 PM
>
> *To:*'TAPR APRS Mailing List' <mailto:aprssig at tapr.org>
>
> *Subject:*Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating
>
> All of this brings up another issue. From the little I've been able to 
> gather about mobile digipeating, and I agree with the statement below 
> ( I believe temporary re-locatable is a better term), it is for 
> temporary emergency use. If this is correct, what constitutes 
> "emergency". Could I justify using it as described for practice 
> purposes? I practice, on the average, twice a week, for 1-2 hours. I 
> would hate for my next posting to you folks to be from Leavenworth 
> after my first digipeating session J. Or for that matter, would I be 
> getting nasty-grams from the APRS community? Otherwise, I think this 
> might fit my needs. I could also use it on actual searches, especially 
> if I drive a ways from Incident Base to the subject's place last seen, 
> which has been the case several times.
>
> dave
>
> N5FMA
>
> *From:*aprssig-bounces at tapr.org <mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org> 
> [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org <mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org>] 
> *On Behalf Of *Jim Alles
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2011 9:52 AM
> *To:* TAPR APRS Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating
>
> Besides, we really aren't talking about mobile digipeating.  That is 
> not recommended for APRS, either.
>
> I would call it a re-locatable digipeater, others might use the term 
> portable.   It is temporary, fixed use.
>
> Peace,
>
> Jim A. KB3TBX
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) 
> <ldeffenb at homeside.to <mailto:ldeffenb at homeside.to>> wrote:
>
> A digipeater is not a dual-frequency repeater, but a receive and 
> re-transmit on a single frequency.  There is no pre-registration 
> required in the United States that I'm aware of.
>
> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
>
>
>
> On 9/17/2011 8:32 AM, Dr. John wrote:
>
> Mobile repeaters in the amateur environment is not authorized. As 
> repeaters need to be registered at a fixed position
>
> Dr. John Gregory /W3ATE-8
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Tom Russo" <russo at bogodyn.org <mailto:russo at bogodyn.org>>
> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 1:02 AM
> To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" <aprssig at tapr.org <mailto:aprssig at tapr.org>>
> Subject: Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:34:30PM -0600, we recorded a 
> bogon-computron collision of the <dnchls at gmail.com 
> <mailto:dnchls at gmail.com>> flavor, containing:
>
> I am in search and rescue and use APRS so others can keep track of me.
>
>
> You're in good company.
>
> I
> live in New Mexico where we have many digipeaters on mountain tops, but we
> still have many dead zones.
>
>
> I've been watching your tracks.  I'm not sure the dead zones are as 
> dead as
> all that.  Still, there are some notable places where there are 
> searches and
> that have spots where you can't be heard.
>
> I have a YAESU VX-8DR ht that I carry with me
> both when practicing and on actual searches. I am considering buying a
> Kenwood TM-D710A. I would like to use the 710 in my mobile as a digipeater
> to either get back to search base on a search or to a mountain digi 
> when I'm
> practicing so my family can know where I'm at on APRS.fi. I would 
> typically
> be within a couple of miles from my truck when I transmitted an APRS 
> signal
> from my ht. How much power does the 710 transmit when in digipeater mode?
>
>
> It transmits with the same power that you have set for its own APRS
> transmissions.
>
> Would this be a situation where using a mobile would be useful? Presently,
> it just doesn't seem I have the punch I need when using the ht.
>
>
> It would help if your truck is generally within range of your 
> handheld, the
> truck is in a good place where it is getting digipeated, and you don't 
> have
> terrain in between you and the truck that prevents the truck from 
> hearing you.
>
> In this case you could use your truck's callsign as the first hop in your
> digi path, and WIDE2-2 next in the path.  That'd let your truck beacon you
> with more ooomph.
>
> The downside of this is that if you wind up in a spot where your truck's
> radio can't hear you, you won't get anywhere even if a WIDE can hear you,
> because they won't premptively digipeat before your truck.
>
> It's unfortunate that Yaesu chose not to implement "Proportional 
> Pathing" in the
> VX-8*R series radios.  The VX-8R lets you set 8 paths, but rather than
> cycling through them, it simply concatenates them for every 
> transmission. I'm
> unfamiliar with the VX-8DR, maybe it does have proportional pathing.  With
> proportional pathing, you can set multiple digi paths, but rather than 
> using
> them all at once, it cycles through them for each transmission.  Then you
> could have "TRUCK,WIDE2-2" for every third transmission,
> "WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2" for every third transmission, and "WIDE2-2" for 
> every third.
> That would take care of making sure that at least SOME of your packets get
> to a wide digi --- either directly, or through your truck, or through 
> a fill-in.
>
> Unfortunately, the people I know both in SAR and amateur radio have never
> played with mobile digipeaters and are pretty clueless on the matter.
>
>
> Clueless?  I don't think that's a fair statement.
>
> To date, most SAR activities in the state have managed without 
> pressing need
> for mobile digis.  NM SAR Support's comms trailer does have a TNC 
> programmed
> to digi WIDE1-1, so if your path is WIDE1-1, WIDE2-2 (which is OK in 
> NM for
> low-powered stations and ONLY low-powered stations... there was a big
> discussion on that subject recently, and you should check the archives
> about it, I won't open that can of worms again), then the comms trailer in
> base will serve as a fill-in digi if needed.  We also have a portable 
> digi we
> can place in the search area when necessary.  It is rarely necessary, 
> but it
> does get deployed now and then.
>
> You should also set your D710 to do TEMPn-N digipeating, but I'm sure
> Bob B. will pipe in here quickly about that one.  Right now, very few 
> people
> in the SAR community have their radios set up for it, so counting on the
> availability of TEMPn-N on searches is not a safe bet just yet.  But 
> if you
> set your own truck to do TEMPn-N, then when you know you aren't reaching
> a wide with your handheld on a search, and you know you can hear your 
> truck,
> you can tinker with your path to use TEMPn-N for a while to be sure of 
> getting
> out.  You'd use "TEMP1-1,WIDE2-2" in that case, and as long as your truck
> can hear you you're good.
>
> One thing you should NOT do is set your truck to digipeat WIDEn-N as if it
> were permanent infrastructure.  Some folks in NMSAR did do that for a 
> while
> and it was a terrible mistake --- it meant that ALL traffic heard by the
> incident comms trailer was getting digipeated if it had any wide hops 
> left.
> That meant the APRS radio in the trailer was transmitting all the 
> time, and
> desensing lots of nearby voice radios every few seconds.
>
> -- 
> Tom Russo    KM5VY   SAR502   DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ 
> <http://www.swcp.com/%7Erusso/>
> Tijeras, NM  QRPL#1592 K2#398  SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM
> "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide
> stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey
>
>
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