[aprssig] [These] Mobile Digipeating

Wed Sep 21 13:57:45 UTC 2011

Yaesu already has, not sure of the others.

73,

Scott KBØNLY

From: David Nichols 
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 10:15 PM
To: 'TAPR APRS Mailing List' 
Subject: Re: [aprssig] [These] Mobile Digipeating

Is anyone aware of plans to integrate a gps into a mobile transceiver (Yaesu or Kenwwod) in the not too distant future?.

From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf Of Earl Needham
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 7:47 AM
To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
Subject: Re: [aprssig] [These] Mobile Digipeating

Appears my attribution may have been incorrect -- at this point, I don't know WHO stated "repeating is repeating".

7 3
Earl
KD5XB

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Earl Needham <earl.kd5xb at gmail.com> wrote:

Negative, Doc.  See http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-clarifies-what-constitutes-an-amateur-radio-repeater 

"03/23/2009 

'In December 2007, Gary Mitchell, WB6YRU, President of the Northern California Packet Association (NCPA), filed a Petition with the FCC, asking for the Commission to clarify the definition of a repeater. According to Part 97, Section 3(a)(39), A repeater in the amateur service is "[a]n amateur station that simultaneously retransmits the transmission of another amateur station on a different channel or channels."

'Mitchell sought clarification on the word "simultaneously," asking if it referred to the signal information being retransmitted, or to the fact that the receiver and transmitter must both be active at the same time while acting on the same signal information. On March 23, 2009, the Commission clarified that even if there is a slight delay between what is received and what it transmits (as in the case of D-STAR and other digital repeaters), it is considered simultaneous if the receiver and transmitter are both active at the same time."

Vy 7 3

Earl

KD5XB

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Dr. John <w3ate at earthlink.net> wrote:

Lynn,

Repeating is repeating either simples or duel.

The FCC, stated clearly states this.

The only unit's that are repeaters and in mobile mode are as example mini repeaters in police cars, like the state police used when they enter a facility and in remote areas.

Theses units were made by Midland and some other companies. But they were registered.

John W3ATE-8

From: David Nichols 

Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 10:32 PM

To: 'TAPR APRS Mailing List' 

Subject: Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating

All of this brings up another issue. From the little I’ve been able to gather about mobile digipeating, and I agree with the statement below ( I believe temporary re-locatable is a better term), it is for temporary emergency use. If this is correct, what constitutes “emergency”. Could I justify using it as described for practice purposes? I practice, on the average, twice a week, for 1-2 hours. I would hate for my next posting to you folks to be from Leavenworth after my first digipeating session J. Or for that matter, would I be getting nasty-grams from the APRS community? Otherwise, I think this might fit my needs. I could also use it on actual searches, especially if I drive a ways from Incident Base to the subject’s place last seen, which has been the case several times.

dave

N5FMA

From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf Of Jim Alles
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 9:52 AM
To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating

Besides, we really aren't talking about mobile digipeating.  That is not recommended for APRS, either.  

I would call it a re-locatable digipeater, others might use the term portable.   It is temporary, fixed use.

Peace,

Jim A. KB3TBX

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) <ldeffenb at homeside.to> wrote:

A digipeater is not a dual-frequency repeater, but a receive and re-transmit on a single frequency.  There is no pre-registration required in the United States that I'm aware of.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 

On 9/17/2011 8:32 AM, Dr. John wrote:

Mobile repeaters in the amateur environment is not authorized. As repeaters need to be registered at a fixed position

Dr. John Gregory /W3ATE-8

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Russo" <russo at bogodyn.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 1:02 AM
To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" <aprssig at tapr.org>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:34:30PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <dnchls at gmail.com> flavor, containing:

I am in search and rescue and use APRS so others can keep track of me.

You're in good company.

I
live in New Mexico where we have many digipeaters on mountain tops, but we
still have many dead zones.

I've been watching your tracks.  I'm not sure the dead zones are as dead as
all that.  Still, there are some notable places where there are searches and
that have spots where you can't be heard.

I have a YAESU VX-8DR ht that I carry with me
both when practicing and on actual searches. I am considering buying a
Kenwood TM-D710A. I would like to use the 710 in my mobile as a digipeater
to either get back to search base on a search or to a mountain digi when I'm
practicing so my family can know where I'm at on APRS.fi. I would typically
be within a couple of miles from my truck when I transmitted an APRS signal
from my ht. How much power does the 710 transmit when in digipeater mode?

It transmits with the same power that you have set for its own APRS
transmissions.

Would this be a situation where using a mobile would be useful? Presently,
it just doesn't seem I have the punch I need when using the ht.

It would help if your truck is generally within range of your handheld, the
truck is in a good place where it is getting digipeated, and you don't have
terrain in between you and the truck that prevents the truck from hearing you.

In this case you could use your truck's callsign as the first hop in your
digi path, and WIDE2-2 next in the path.  That'd let your truck beacon you
with more ooomph.

The downside of this is that if you wind up in a spot where your truck's
radio can't hear you, you won't get anywhere even if a WIDE can hear you,
because they won't premptively digipeat before your truck.

It's unfortunate that Yaesu chose not to implement "Proportional Pathing" in the
VX-8*R series radios.  The VX-8R lets you set 8 paths, but rather than
cycling through them, it simply concatenates them for every transmission. I'm
unfamiliar with the VX-8DR, maybe it does have proportional pathing.  With
proportional pathing, you can set multiple digi paths, but rather than using
them all at once, it cycles through them for each transmission.  Then you
could have "TRUCK,WIDE2-2" for every third transmission,
"WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2" for every third transmission, and "WIDE2-2" for every third.
That would take care of making sure that at least SOME of your packets get
to a wide digi --- either directly, or through your truck, or through a fill-in.

Unfortunately, the people I know both in SAR and amateur radio have never
played with mobile digipeaters and are pretty clueless on the matter.

Clueless?  I don't think that's a fair statement.

To date, most SAR activities in the state have managed without pressing need
for mobile digis.  NM SAR Support's comms trailer does have a TNC programmed
to digi WIDE1-1, so if your path is WIDE1-1, WIDE2-2 (which is OK in NM for
low-powered stations and ONLY low-powered stations... there was a big
discussion on that subject recently, and you should check the archives
about it, I won't open that can of worms again), then the comms trailer in
base will serve as a fill-in digi if needed.  We also have a portable digi we
can place in the search area when necessary.  It is rarely necessary, but it
does get deployed now and then.

You should also set your D710 to do TEMPn-N digipeating, but I'm sure
Bob B. will pipe in here quickly about that one.  Right now, very few people
in the SAR community have their radios set up for it, so counting on the
availability of TEMPn-N on searches is not a safe bet just yet.  But if you
set your own truck to do TEMPn-N, then when you know you aren't reaching
a wide with your handheld on a search, and you know you can hear your truck,
you can tinker with your path to use TEMPn-N for a while to be sure of getting
out.  You'd use "TEMP1-1,WIDE2-2" in that case, and as long as your truck
can hear you you're good.

One thing you should NOT do is set your truck to digipeat WIDEn-N as if it
were permanent infrastructure.  Some folks in NMSAR did do that for a while
and it was a terrible mistake --- it meant that ALL traffic heard by the
incident comms trailer was getting digipeated if it had any wide hops left.
That meant the APRS radio in the trailer was transmitting all the time, and
desensing lots of nearby voice radios every few seconds.

-- 
Tom Russo    KM5VY   SAR502   DM64ux          http://www.swcp.com/~russo/
Tijeras, NM  QRPL#1592 K2#398  SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM
"One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide
stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey

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