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[aprssig] FREQ Object Formats (call to action)

Bob Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Tue May 8 14:05:48 UTC 2012

>> That does not matter. I am talking about the standards 
>> BUILT INTO THE RADIO. If the radios in a given region 
>> have a STANDARD offset, then that is what it will
>> use.  If a country does not use the standard, then of 
>> course it does not apply and the actual offset must be included.

> I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Lynn 
> and others about this.

Aren't we all in violent agreement???  If you NEED, WANT, or feel COMPELLED
to include the offset, then PLEASE DO SO!  I don't understand why this is so

> If you were to travel to Finland... You might spot a repeater 
> there and decide to try to work it. You probably would not 
> know that our 70 cm repeaters have either -1.6 MHz or -2.0 MHz 
> offsets, and the US variant of the TH-D72 you might bring would 
> not know it either.

I have covered this numerous times.  Most of the APRS radios do NOT do
STANDARD offsets on UHF, so therefore all repeaters on UHF SHOULD TRANSMIT
THE OFFSET.  Notice again, we are in violent agreement!

ASIDE: Though I should say that reciprocal Licensing agreements of all
countries REQUIRE that visiting operators UNDERSTAND AND OPERATE in
accordance with the RULES and procedures and standards of the host country.
I would be appalled at a licensed traveler that does not do his homework and
familiarize himself with the standards and operating procedures where he
intends to travel.

> Even if you would not travel to the Finland, I might come 
> to Dayton for a second time, and face the same use case.

And you will find that all PROPERLY configured APRS DIGIs should be
including OFFSETS on all UHF repeaters.  (at least the 10% who follow the
spec do).  The problem is not the spec, it is the SYSOPS setting up FREQ
OBJECTS that are 90% doing it willy-nilly and wrong..

FURTHER, the thoughtfull SYSOP anywhere near or around Dayton would
anticipate VISITORS and would likely fully consider including the +xxx or
-xxx offset in ALL his objects.  It is HIS CHOICE, it is his LOCAL AREA, to
do what should be done for those conditions.

> The software we write is used worldwide, and there is no way 
> we can make it know about local "standard" offsets, especially 
> for areas which have no standard offsets.

Please explain to me how a web browser has to know how to do an offset in
Timbuktu?  Only the person in Timbuktu cares.  If the person setting up the
beacon in Timbuktu is concerned that someone in Tanzania needs to know the
standard offset in TimBuktu, then he can simply DO IT.  But PLEASE DO IT IN
ACCORDANCE WITH THE SPEC.  The problem is not the spec, is not the offsets,
it is simply that 90% of all the objects on the air are not DOING it in
accordance with the spec and we have an absolute mess.

Lets fix THAT problem FIRST.  Then we can address where we go from here.

And all this garbage-in on the air MUST NOT BE FIXED on receipt.  It must be
fixed at the SOURCE or it will never be fixed and workable across all

> whatever is transmitted should explicitly contain all 
> information necessary to reach the repeater and leave 
> no space for guesswork. 

Which anyone can do now.  The spec fully covers that.  It's just that people
are not properly including the OFFSET info.  It is simple.  Just include
+xxx or -xxx where xxx is in 10's of KHz.

Lets go get these objects Fixed.  After every trip on the road, I write down
all the misconfigured FREQ OBJECTS I see and send emails to everyone.  We
cannot fix this by complaining here on email.  We can only fix this through
personal contact with the sysop of every misconfigured object.


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