[aprssig] [APRS] Announcement of WA1PLE-15 digipeater in SW Boston Area (NOT)

Andrew P. andrewemt at hotmail.com
Tue Sep 24 14:38:57 CDT 2013


So let me see if I can reword this for clarity (check me on this):

The digi should announce a voice repeater that is useful _in_ _the_ _coverage_ _area_ _of_ _the_ _digi_.

As such, if several short-range digis (out of range of each other) were scattered around the same long-range repeater, could (and should) they all announce the same repeater (using no digipeat aliases in their announcement packets)? Seems like that would ensure the traveler would hear about the repeater from one of the digis he was passing (regardless of which direction he was relative to the repeater)?

But then who decides _which_ of the multiple digis should do it?

Andrew KA2DDO
(poking a stick in the fire... :-)
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:27:49 
To: <aprssig at tapr.org>
Cc: <aprs at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] [APRS] Announcement of WA1PLE-15 digipeater in SW
 Boston Area (NOT)



Ø  Therefore I would suggest that the repeater object have a path of WIDE1-1 or WIDE2-1 
 
Very respectfully, <grin> NO NO and no.! 
 
This FREQ object belongs *to*the*digi not to the repeater it is advertising..  The digi's job is to serve the users in *its* vicinity (and not generate QRM to the channel *nor* to adjacent areas.  Therefore, this LOCALINFO concept has been uniquely designed to be 
1)      Sourced at the digi to serve only the DIGI's users and DIGI's area 
2)      Sourced at the digi to eliminate any WIDEn-n digipeating (added load on the network) 
3)      Sourced at the digi so as to not collide with any*other user packets 
4)      Sourced at the digi 10 minutes direct so visitors get the important info quickly but at no cost (Load). 
5)      Sourced DIRECT so that users do NOT see recommended voice repeaters that they CANNOT USE when they receive it because it is coming in from some distance away (hence direct from the digi, only in the area where immediately relevant). 
 
Doing anthing else, (Souircing at a home station), Sourcing with any digipeat hops other than DIRECT violates all 5 concepts. 
 
There is nothing more frustrating than to receive a packet poping up on my display showing 146.94 MHz and then getting excited that I might be able to dig up a local contact, only to find that I cannot hit it and have wasted my time and endangered myself for tuning the radio when the FREQ object is coming in from 100 miles away from some digi or home station that does not understand this concept. 
 
I see far too many of these "ego objects" and it is very frustrating.  Almost to the point that in some areas, I don't bother tuning to the repeater because more often than not it is SPAM coming in from too far away.  Its like someone always crying WOLF so much that we get desentized to hearing it and the whole advantage of the LOCALINFO system is undermined by turning it into too muchy spam. 
 
Yes, one may chose to add this huge burden and out-of-area-and-of-no-value info on their very remote network in an area because it is desolate and with hardly any traffic, but please  understand that that is a local choice and goes against the concept in any area where reliability and throughput of users is of a concern. 
 
Hope that helps. 
Bob, WB4APR
  
 


 From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org <mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org>  [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org <mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org> ] On Behalf Of Tony VE6MVP
 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:18 PM
To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
Cc: aprs at yahoogroups.com <mailto:aprs at yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: Re: [aprssig] [APRS] Announcement of WA1PLE-15 digipeater in SW Boston Area 
 
At 11:17 AM 2013-09-24, Robert Bruninga wrote:


Thanks for the question.  That is the fun part!
 
The Repeater Object you want to "advertise" is the one that you would recommend to a traveler entering the area and just wanting to TALK to people in the area.  These days, with PL, it is nearly impossible for a traveler to play radio while mobile in a new area without knowing this critical info.  So it is your call.  If you were entering the *coverage area of this digi* what repeater would  you have the best chance of finding someone.  That is the one to advertise.
  
Fortunately, in a KPC-3, you actually have room for 3 such frequency objects if needed.  They TX simplex direct once every 10 minutes (and only when the channel as heard by the digi is clear).  Hence great info, in real-time, but at no cost to the load on the channel. 

As a traveller who seldom has a passenger I very much like the concept of repeater objects and we've introducing them around here in Alberta.  And yes in parts of Alberta amateurs have gone a bit overboard in creating dozens of repeater objects which are being transmitted from their home igates but I digress.  <smile>
 
However I disagree with one portion of your statement.  The "direct' part. The digi network out my area of rural Alberta is just awesome.   It is a relatively quiet network with little mobile traffic and very little overlap between the sites.  My subjective observations while mobile are that the coverage of a digi for the mobile station to receive packets is substantially less than the coverage of the FM repeater when on the same antenna.      Voice coverage might be 60 or 70 kms while receiving the packet might only work out about 30 kms.
 
Given a ten minute object transmit time the traveller could be in range of the voice repeater for up to half an hour before the traveller knows it exists.

Therefore I would suggest that the repeater object have a path of WIDE1-1 or WIDE2-1 so the adjacent digipeaters see the packet and display it on your device as you pass near those digipeaters.  So now you the amateur radio operator can make the decision if you are close enough to the voice repeater and tune to the frequency.
 
Tony


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