[aprssig] [APRS] Announcement of WA1PLE-15 digipeater in SW Boston Area (NOT)

Robert Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Tue Sep 24 15:34:13 CDT 2013


Bingo You got it!

Who decides?  ANSWER:  The SYSOP of the digi (or anyone else he will
listen to).  He is doing the work, so he gets to decide.   He simply
answers the question, what 1 or 2  voice repeaters in my digi's area give
the mobile travler the best chance of finding a HUMAN to talk to.

It is better for the mobile to know the one best*likely, then to have a
list off 20 or 30 from the Repeater Directory and have to guess thorugh
each one...

Done.
Bob, Wb4aPR

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew P.

So let me see if I can reword this for clarity (check me on this):

The digi should announce a voice repeater that is useful _in_ _the_
_coverage_ _area_ _of_ _the_ _digi_.

As such, if several short-range digis (out of range of each other) were
scattered around the same long-range repeater, could (and should) they all
announce the same repeater (using no digipeat aliases in their
announcement packets)? Seems like that would ensure the traveler would
hear about the repeater from one of the digis he was passing (regardless
of which direction he was relative to the repeater)?

But then who decides _which_ of the multiple digis should do it?

Andrew KA2DDO

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:27:49
To: <aprssig at tapr.org>
Cc: <aprs at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] [APRS] Announcement of WA1PLE-15 digipeater in SW
Boston Area (NOT)



Ø  Therefore I would suggest that the repeater object have a path of
WIDE1-1 or WIDE2-1

Very respectfully, <grin> NO NO and no.!

This FREQ object belongs *to*the*digi not to the repeater it is
advertising..  The digi's job is to serve the users in *its* vicinity (and
not generate QRM to the channel *nor* to adjacent areas.  Therefore, this
LOCALINFO concept has been uniquely designed to be
1)      Sourced at the digi to serve only the DIGI's users and DIGI's area

2)      Sourced at the digi to eliminate any WIDEn-n digipeating (added
load on the network)
3)      Sourced at the digi so as to not collide with any*other user
packets
4)      Sourced at the digi 10 minutes direct so visitors get the
important info quickly but at no cost (Load).
5)      Sourced DIRECT so that users do NOT see recommended voice
repeaters that they CANNOT USE when they receive it because it is coming
in from some distance away (hence direct from the digi, only in the area
where immediately relevant).

Doing anthing else, (Souircing at a home station), Sourcing with any
digipeat hops other than DIRECT violates all 5 concepts.

There is nothing more frustrating than to receive a packet poping up on my
display showing 146.94 MHz and then getting excited that I might be able
to dig up a local contact, only to find that I cannot hit it and have
wasted my time and endangered myself for tuning the radio when the FREQ
object is coming in from 100 miles away from some digi or home station
that does not understand this concept.

I see far too many of these "ego objects" and it is very frustrating.
Almost to the point that in some areas, I don't bother tuning to the
repeater because more often than not it is SPAM coming in from too far
away.  Its like someone always crying WOLF so much that we get desentized
to hearing it and the whole advantage of the LOCALINFO system is
undermined by turning it into too muchy spam.

Yes, one may chose to add this huge burden and out-of-area-and-of-no-value
info on their very remote network in an area because it is desolate and
with hardly any traffic, but please  understand that that is a local
choice and goes against the concept in any area where reliability and
throughput of users is of a concern.

Hope that helps.
Bob, WB4APR




 From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org <mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org>
[mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org <mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org> ] On
Behalf Of Tony VE6MVP
 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:18 PM
To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
Cc: aprs at yahoogroups.com <mailto:aprs at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] [APRS] Announcement of WA1PLE-15 digipeater in SW
Boston Area

At 11:17 AM 2013-09-24, Robert Bruninga wrote:


Thanks for the question.  That is the fun part!

The Repeater Object you want to "advertise" is the one that you would
recommend to a traveler entering the area and just wanting to TALK to
people in the area.  These days, with PL, it is nearly impossible for a
traveler to play radio while mobile in a new area without knowing this
critical info.  So it is your call.  If you were entering the *coverage
area of this digi* what repeater would  you have the best chance of
finding someone.  That is the one to advertise.

Fortunately, in a KPC-3, you actually have room for 3 such frequency
objects if needed.  They TX simplex direct once every 10 minutes (and only
when the channel as heard by the digi is clear).  Hence great info, in
real-time, but at no cost to the load on the channel.

As a traveller who seldom has a passenger I very much like the concept of
repeater objects and we've introducing them around here in Alberta.  And
yes in parts of Alberta amateurs have gone a bit overboard in creating
dozens of repeater objects which are being transmitted from their home
igates but I digress.  <smile>

However I disagree with one portion of your statement.  The "direct' part.
The digi network out my area of rural Alberta is just awesome.   It is a
relatively quiet network with little mobile traffic and very little
overlap between the sites.  My subjective observations while mobile are
that the coverage of a digi for the mobile station to receive packets is
substantially less than the coverage of the FM repeater when on the same
antenna.      Voice coverage might be 60 or 70 kms while receiving the
packet might only work out about 30 kms.

Given a ten minute object transmit time the traveller could be in range of
the voice repeater for up to half an hour before the traveller knows it
exists.

Therefore I would suggest that the repeater object have a path of WIDE1-1
or WIDE2-1 so the adjacent digipeaters see the packet and display it on
your device as you pass near those digipeaters.  So now you the amateur
radio operator can make the decision if you are close enough to the voice
repeater and tune to the frequency.

Tony
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