[aprssig] 6M APRS via meteor scatter forum?

Ron VE8RT ve8rt at yknwt.ca
Sun Oct 15 13:38:20 CDT 2017


Thanks for clearing that up.  

I must do some more reading and online research.  I'd like to get an
idea of a typical delay to get an APRS message through, and whether
dead times would be tens of minutes or hours.

   Ron VE8RT

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 12:41:15 -0400
Robert Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu> wrote:

> My understanding is that Meteor Scatter is very specular reflection so it
> is very dependent on exact geometer and frequency.  So my guess is that it
> might work for the occasional big burn meteor, but that is not where the
> throughput and reliability of MS is foiund.  That is found in taking
> fortuitous advantage of the thousands of smallers meteors during the day.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Ron VE8RT <ve8rt at yknwt.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Ooooh! Stupid simple idea just came to mind for emcomm APRS.
> >
> >    Assumption 1, the destination city for the emcomm traffic has
> > working high power FM broadcast stations on air.
> >
> >    Assumption 2, a MS path for the FM station between the originating
> > station and the destination station is also a working path for the 6M
> > traffic.
> >
> >    If both are true then there is no need for high duty cycle
> > transmissions to determine if a path exists, a separate receiver tuned
> > to the destination FM transmitter could trigger a data exchange.
> >
> >    A question though is how small is the MS path footprint, how close
> > does the igate station need to be to the FM station used?
> >
> >    Ron VE8RT
> >
> > On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 11:11:21 +0000 (UTC)
> > Ev Tupis <w2ev at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >  Hi Ron,If you are interested in specifically using APRS for MS on 6
> > meters, you will need to setup both ends of the path, just as you have
> > done.  There is little-to-no 6 meter APRS activity on 6 meters to use as a
> > "base".
> > > Operation requires a transceiver and/or amplifier that is capable of 50%
> > duty cycle (use a Fan!).  One station will TX for 15 seconds while the
> > other one RX's.  Clearly, you must coordinate TX and RX intervals.
> > >
> > > The more power you transmit, the easier it is to make a contact (a
> > general principle that transcends MS-specific communication).
> > > Some degree of success has been had with as little as 25 watts + 10 dBi
> > antenna (250 watts EIRP) at 6 meters.
> > > Success is largely defined within the "time dimension" (being able to
> > operate for long periods of time).  Since everything is computer
> > controlled, it is possible to select a seldom used frequency and let it run
> > over night...taking advantage of the spike in MS ionization that occurs
> > from 3 AM to 9 AM local time.  This works well if you are allowed to run
> > under "automatic control" (like an FM repeater does) rather than being
> > forced to have a human operator present at all time.
> > >
> > > FM APRS works well.  So does the SSB mode.  You can experiment to see
> > which provides a superior experience.
> > > 'hope this has helped as a bit of a primer.
> > >
> > > Best regards,Ev, W2EV
> > >
> > >     On Saturday, October 14, 2017, 8:21:12 PM EDT, Ron VE8RT <
> > ve8rt at yknwt.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > >  Hi,
> > >
> > >   I've re-joined the APRS SIG forum.
> > >
> > >   And I'm doing a little shopping for 6M gear.  I have a FT 726 that
> > > is being shipped to me from the US, Joel at RF Connection offered it to
> > > me for free, along with additional modules, and manuals, for the cost
> > > of shipping.  And I have a new in the box Cushcraft 5el yagi thats been
> > > in the back shed since I bought it.  With short coax run up the tower I
> > > should be fine without a masthead preamp.
> > >
> > >   The National APRS Meteorscatter test that Bob mentioned would be
> > > interesting to look at.  Of particular interest is the useable range,
> > > we need a thousand kilometres to get into Edmonton from here, the
> > > closest major city.  This part of the Northwest Territories is
> > > relatively flat, the Yukon on the other hand is mountainous and I'd
> > > like to know how well this would work in the mountain valleys.
> > >
> > >   Yuuri, VY1YU / JS6SHS, who ran the earlier HF propagation
> > > experiments has been e-mailed to see if he'd be interested in trying a
> > > MS APRS experiment.  He's gotten back to me and is interested in
> > > setting up some tests.
> > >
> > >   What additional hardware, other than the transceiver and antenna,
> > > should I have to try this?  I've been tinkering with Arduinos, Cory had
> > > mentioned earlier, but I'm not sure where they fit in.
> > >
> > >   If there is anything that I need to buy out of the US I'd like to
> > > get it ordered and on it's way to Joel at RF Connection to have it
> > > included in the package he's sending me.
> > >
> > >   Thanks for your help!
> > >
> > >         Ron VE8RT (30M WSPR as VE8TEA)
> > >
> > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:45:45 -0400
> > > Cory Vickruck <crvickru at lakeheadu.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Also I would be happy to setup an igate for him to test. I think I
> > might be
> > > > just out of range however. I am in thunder bay Ontario
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Oct 12, 2017 4:31 PM, "Cory Vickruck" <crvickru at lakeheadu.ca>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > After reading a bit more about the topic I am interested in trying
> > it out.
> > > > > How much power would be enough for reliable packets at 6m APRS?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Oct 12, 2017 2:36 PM, "Cory Vickruck" <crvickru at lakeheadu.ca>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Could PSK-31 be a option? Maybe fsq would be a good option as it
> > can be
> > > > >> interfaced with an Arduino.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Oct 12, 2017 2:12 PM, "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga at usna.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> We have had great success with APRS Meteor Scatter on 6 meters, but
> > I have
> > > > >> not done it since 1996?  Maybe its time for some new blood.  Let me
> > see if
> > > > >> I can find the results of our first National APRS Meteroscatter
> > test.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Everyone, meet Ron, VE8RT who needs to communicate probably by APRS
> > using
> > > > >> Meteorscatter from the great Northwest...  He currently is not on
> > the
> > > > >> APRSSIG and so reply here so we can see the interest, and I will
> > forward
> > > > >> any useful replies to him.  Bob, WB4aPR
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Ron VE8RT [ve8rt at yknwt.ca]
> > > > >> Subject: 6M APRS via meteor scatter forum?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hi Bob,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>    I'm looking for a forum, if there is one, on meteor scatter and
> > APRS.
> > > > >> I'm one of less than a score of active amateur radio operators here
> > in the
> > > > >> Northwest Territories of Canada.  The majority of amateur radio
> > activity
> > > > >> is here in Yellowknife (the capital), with distances of over a
> > thousand
> > > > >> kilometres seperating some of us.  HF propagation is generally poor
> > and
> > > > >> unreliable, so I'm looking into 6M meteor scatter APRS or other
> > digital
> > > > >> modes for emergency communications.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>    I had joined the TAPR APRS SIG forum for a few days, having
> > posted my
> > > > >> introduction and my interest in meteor scatter APRS, but it didn't
> > > > >> generate any replies (so I unsubscribed).
> > > > >>
> > > > >>    Would you have any suggestions?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>    Thanks,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>            Ron VE8RT in DP22
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Ron VE8RT <ve8rt at yknwt.ca>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> aprssig mailing list
> > > > >> aprssig at tapr.org
> > > > >> http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ron VE8RT <ve8rt at yknwt.ca>
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > aprssig at tapr.org
> > > http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ron VE8RT <ve8rt at yknwt.ca>
> > _______________________________________________
> > aprssig mailing list
> > aprssig at tapr.org
> > http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
> >


-- 
Ron VE8RT <ve8rt at yknwt.ca>


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