From schntv at adelphia.net  Tue Jun  5 18:20:39 2007
From: schntv at adelphia.net (Larry)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 14:20:39 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
Message-ID: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>

I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge mode, about 
half a mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
the system worked fine during the winter, and I am sure the 
leaves are a problem.
the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact they 
connect fine and will handle data for a few minutes then seem 
to loose contact.
if I wait half an hour the work again for a few minutes.
is there a setting I should change??
would an amplifier help?
I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.

thanks,
larry


-- 
Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY



From n3toy at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  5 19:16:03 2007
From: n3toy at yahoo.com (James R. Gorr)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:16:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
In-Reply-To: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>



Is it repetitive and predictable?  In other words,
after 5 minutes it "shut down" for 25 minutes then it
works again for 5 minutes...?  It almost sounds like
it could be a heat issue.  The transmitter heats up
and maybe a trace breaks contact or something.  It
does not sound like a setting (I assume you have not
made any changes to the nodes since the last time you
knew it to work).  The colder temps in the winter
could have kept the unit from over-heating, but now
the hotter, summertime temps are here and causing a
heat issue.

Jamie

--- Larry <schntv at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge
> mode, about 
> half a mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
> the system worked fine during the winter, and I am
> sure the 
> leaves are a problem.
> the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact
> they 
> connect fine and will handle data for a few minutes
> then seem 
> to loose contact.
> if I wait half an hour the work again for a few
> minutes.
> is there a setting I should change??
> would an amplifier help?
> I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.
> 
> thanks,
> larry
> 
> 
> -- 
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622      
> www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class
> K8WLY
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433



From fred.juch at hp.com  Tue Jun  5 19:41:45 2007
From: fred.juch at hp.com (Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch))
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 19:41:45 -0000
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
In-Reply-To: <424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>
	<424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>

This sounds to me like you have no link margin. The leaves raised the
link loss to a level too high to allow reliable communications. Yes
amplifiers will probably help. What you need to do is calculate the link
loss with the leaves, and either raise the antennas to remove this loss,
or increase the power to compensate. Power can be increased by using
bigger antennas, receive pre amps, or power amplifiers. You can use the
calculations on this web page:
http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/calculations.asp I am not
associated with this page.

Fred Juch, N5JXO

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of James R. Gorr
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:16 PM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble



Is it repetitive and predictable?  In other words, after 5 minutes it
"shut down" for 25 minutes then it works again for 5 minutes...?  It
almost sounds like it could be a heat issue.  The transmitter heats up
and maybe a trace breaks contact or something.  It does not sound like a
setting (I assume you have not made any changes to the nodes since the
last time you knew it to work).  The colder temps in the winter could
have kept the unit from over-heating, but now the hotter, summertime
temps are here and causing a heat issue.

Jamie

--- Larry <schntv at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge mode, about half a 
> mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
> the system worked fine during the winter, and I am sure the leaves are

> a problem.
> the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact they connect fine 
> and will handle data for a few minutes then seem to loose contact.
> if I wait half an hour the work again for a few minutes.
> is there a setting I should change??
> would an amplifier help?
> I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.
> 
> thanks,
> larry
> 
> 
> --
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622      
> www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class
> K8WLY
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 



       
________________________________________________________________________
____________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211



From ooe at odessaoffice.com  Tue Jun  5 20:39:51 2007
From: ooe at odessaoffice.com (Marlon K. Schafer)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 13:39:51 -0700
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
References: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net><424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>
Message-ID: <006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0@mlaptop2>

One of the problems with using the consumer grade gear is that it gives 
crappy signal level indications.

For a wifi signal to work in b mode you normally only need about -80 to -85 
dB.  G mode will be closer to -65 to -70.

.5 miles with 24 dB grids is a LOT of power.  It's very likely you are 
picking up interference, multipath etc.

Here are a couple of tests to try.  Cross polarize your antennas.  See what 
happens.

Point one or both antennas 180* away from the other end of the link.

If any of these tests helps, you likely have too much power.  WiFi is touchy 
that way sometimes.
marlon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch)" <fred.juch at hp.com>
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11" 
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble


This sounds to me like you have no link margin. The leaves raised the
link loss to a level too high to allow reliable communications. Yes
amplifiers will probably help. What you need to do is calculate the link
loss with the leaves, and either raise the antennas to remove this loss,
or increase the power to compensate. Power can be increased by using
bigger antennas, receive pre amps, or power amplifiers. You can use the
calculations on this web page:
http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/calculations.asp I am not
associated with this page.

Fred Juch, N5JXO

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of James R. Gorr
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:16 PM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble



Is it repetitive and predictable?  In other words, after 5 minutes it
"shut down" for 25 minutes then it works again for 5 minutes...?  It
almost sounds like it could be a heat issue.  The transmitter heats up
and maybe a trace breaks contact or something.  It does not sound like a
setting (I assume you have not made any changes to the nodes since the
last time you knew it to work).  The colder temps in the winter could
have kept the unit from over-heating, but now the hotter, summertime
temps are here and causing a heat issue.

Jamie

--- Larry <schntv at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge mode, about half a
> mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
> the system worked fine during the winter, and I am sure the leaves are

> a problem.
> the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact they connect fine
> and will handle data for a few minutes then seem to loose contact.
> if I wait half an hour the work again for a few minutes.
> is there a setting I should change??
> would an amplifier help?
> I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.
>
> thanks,
> larry
>
>
> --
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622
> www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class
> K8WLY
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>




________________________________________________________________________
____________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211 




From wa5vms at tapr.org  Wed Jun  6 02:29:49 2007
From: wa5vms at tapr.org (Joe S. Borovetz)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:29:49 -0500
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
In-Reply-To: <006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0@mlaptop2>
References: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>
	<424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>
	<006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0@mlaptop2>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8@tapr.org>

The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again 
on 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for wi-fi.

I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they 
confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes for 5.8.

Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.

Joe





From Darryl at radio-active.net.au  Wed Jun  6 02:57:42 2007
From: Darryl at radio-active.net.au (Darryl Smith)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 12:57:42 +1000
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8@tapr.org>
References: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>	<424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>	<006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0@mlaptop2>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <01af01c7a7e6$736257d0$5a270770$@net.au>

If you look at the Wireless Design text books for Cellphone Networks - such
as the ones by C.Y.Lee you will find attenuation curves for Pine Forests.
The reason in this case is that the 850/900 MHz of many cellphones has a
quarter wave wavelength that is about equal to the average length of pine
needles. That is, the pine needles in a pine forest becomes an amazing set
of distributed dummy loads. 

I would imagine that leaves of most trees are much shorter providing more
absorption, and more reflections away too.

Darryl 

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Joe S. Borovetz
Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2007 12:30 PM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble

The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again 
on 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for
wi-fi.

I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they 
confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes for
5.8.

Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.

Joe



_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211




From schntv at adelphia.net  Wed Jun  6 14:03:20 2007
From: schntv at adelphia.net (Larry)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:03:20 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8@tapr.org>
References: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>	<424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>	<006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0@mlaptop2>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8@tapr.org>
Message-ID: <4666BEA8.5060204@adelphia.net>

I agree it is probably the leaves, but it seemed strange how 
it will down load data for a few minutes than get lost.
then after a period, work for a few minutes again.
I was hoping there were some tweaking I could do to the WAP54 
setup.
also there are days it works perfect then maybe the rain or 
humidity changes and its gone.
As someone mentioned, it is a very strong link, if there were 
no trees. so I wonder if more power or more antenna gain would 
even help.
my antenna is up about 40 ft. but the neighbors trees are 
about 80 ft.
I cant afford to go that high as a test.
How can I tell if another station is blocking my signal.
I have tried different channels with little success.
how about even a microwave oven interfering?

I am considering buying an amp, I never used one, what would 
the group recommend?

thanks again,
larry





Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY


Joe S. Borovetz wrote:
> The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again on 
> 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for 
> wi-fi.
> 
> I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they confirmed 
> time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes for 5.8.
> 
> Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 
> 



From fred.juch at hp.com  Wed Jun  6 14:10:10 2007
From: fred.juch at hp.com (Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch))
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 14:10:10 -0000
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
In-Reply-To: <4666BEA8.5060204@adelphia.net>
References: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>	<424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>	<006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0@mlaptop2><7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8@tapr.org>
	<4666BEA8.5060204@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEFAAC@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>

Try setting the link to use 802.11B only. The units may be trying to go
to too high a modulation level for the interference to handle. A working
11 MB link is better than a non working 54 MB link. This would need to
be set on both ends.

Fred N5JXO 

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 9:03 AM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble

I agree it is probably the leaves, but it seemed strange how it will
down load data for a few minutes than get lost.
then after a period, work for a few minutes again.
I was hoping there were some tweaking I could do to the WAP54 setup.
also there are days it works perfect then maybe the rain or humidity
changes and its gone.
As someone mentioned, it is a very strong link, if there were no trees.
so I wonder if more power or more antenna gain would even help.
my antenna is up about 40 ft. but the neighbors trees are about 80 ft.
I cant afford to go that high as a test.
How can I tell if another station is blocking my signal.
I have tried different channels with little success.
how about even a microwave oven interfering?

I am considering buying an amp, I never used one, what would the group
recommend?

thanks again,
larry





Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY


Joe S. Borovetz wrote:
> The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again 
> on
> 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for 
> wi-fi.
> 
> I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they 
> confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes
for 5.8.
> 
> Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of
trees.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 
> 

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211



From schntv at adelphia.net  Wed Jun  6 14:19:57 2007
From: schntv at adelphia.net (Larry)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:19:57 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
In-Reply-To: <D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEFAAC@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>
References: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>	<424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>	<006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0@mlaptop2><7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8@tapr.org>	<4666BEA8.5060204@adelphia.net>
	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEFAAC@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>
Message-ID: <4666C28D.1010707@adelphia.net>

I like that idea, I will try it.
:)
thanks

Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY


Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch) wrote:
> Try setting the link to use 802.11B only. The units may be trying to go
> to too high a modulation level for the interference to handle. A working
> 11 MB link is better than a non working 54 MB link. This would need to
> be set on both ends.
> 
> Fred N5JXO 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
> [mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Larry
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 9:03 AM
> To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
> Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble
> 
> I agree it is probably the leaves, but it seemed strange how it will
> down load data for a few minutes than get lost.
> then after a period, work for a few minutes again.
> I was hoping there were some tweaking I could do to the WAP54 setup.
> also there are days it works perfect then maybe the rain or humidity
> changes and its gone.
> As someone mentioned, it is a very strong link, if there were no trees.
> so I wonder if more power or more antenna gain would even help.
> my antenna is up about 40 ft. but the neighbors trees are about 80 ft.
> I cant afford to go that high as a test.
> How can I tell if another station is blocking my signal.
> I have tried different channels with little success.
> how about even a microwave oven interfering?
> 
> I am considering buying an amp, I never used one, what would the group
> recommend?
> 
> thanks again,
> larry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY
> 
> 
> Joe S. Borovetz wrote:
> 
>>The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again 
>>on
>>2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for 
>>wi-fi.
>>
>>I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they 
>>confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes
> 
> for 5.8.
> 
>>Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of
> 
> trees.
> 
>>Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>ham-80211 mailing list
>>ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>>https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>>
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 
> 



From ooe at odessaoffice.com  Wed Jun  6 16:12:05 2007
From: ooe at odessaoffice.com (Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 09:12:05 -0700
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
References: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>	<424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>	<006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0@mlaptop2><7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8@tapr.org>
	<4666BEA8.5060204@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <003001c7a855$6cfe7350$09ba9240@marlon>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry" <schntv at adelphia.net>
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11" 
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble


>I agree it is probably the leaves, but it seemed strange how it will down 
>load data for a few minutes than get lost.
> then after a period, work for a few minutes again.
> I was hoping there were some tweaking I could do to the WAP54 setup.
> also there are days it works perfect then maybe the rain or humidity 
> changes and its gone.
> As someone mentioned, it is a very strong link, if there were no trees. so 
> I wonder if more power or more antenna gain would even help.
> my antenna is up about 40 ft. but the neighbors trees are about 80 ft.
> I cant afford to go that high as a test.

Try going UNDER the trees.

> How can I tell if another station is blocking my signal.

That's pretty rare.  WiFi is designed to share spectrum with other similar 
systems.  If it were a non wifi system causing you grief it would likely be 
more consistant.

> I have tried different channels with little success.

Only channels 1,6, and 11 are non overlapping with other.

> how about even a microwave oven interfering?

Again, it can happen.  But it would not likely be so long at a time.

>
> I am considering buying an amp, I never used one, what would the group 
> recommend?

Don't.  Not for this short of a link.

If you insist on playing with an amp (that'll put you over the eirp rules 
for any channels above 5 or 6 as I reacall) look at shireen, teletronics or 
rf linx (or is it rf lynx?).  Hyperlink is a popular brand but they tend to 
sell people amps that put them outside of the FCC rules so I don't like 
them.

Hope it helps,
marlon

>
> thanks again,
> larry
>
>
>
>
>
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY
>
>
> Joe S. Borovetz wrote:
>> The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again on 
>> 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for 
>> wi-fi.
>>
>> I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they confirmed 
>> time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes for 5.8.
>>
>> Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ham-80211 mailing list
>> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 




From schntv at adelphia.net  Wed Jun  6 16:24:56 2007
From: schntv at adelphia.net (Larry)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:24:56 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
In-Reply-To: <003001c7a855$6cfe7350$09ba9240@marlon>
References: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>	<424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>	<006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0@mlaptop2><7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8@tapr.org>	<4666BEA8.5060204@adelphia.net>
	<003001c7a855$6cfe7350$09ba9240@marlon>
Message-ID: <4666DFD8.4020209@adelphia.net>

I changed from channel 1 to 11 and sat it for B only, and it 
is working great so far.


Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry" <schntv at adelphia.net>
> To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11" 
> <ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 7:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble
> 
> 
>> I agree it is probably the leaves, but it seemed strange how it will 
>> down load data for a few minutes than get lost.
>> then after a period, work for a few minutes again.
>> I was hoping there were some tweaking I could do to the WAP54 setup.
>> also there are days it works perfect then maybe the rain or humidity 
>> changes and its gone.
>> As someone mentioned, it is a very strong link, if there were no 
>> trees. so I wonder if more power or more antenna gain would even help.
>> my antenna is up about 40 ft. but the neighbors trees are about 80 ft.
>> I cant afford to go that high as a test.
> 
> 
> Try going UNDER the trees.
> 
>> How can I tell if another station is blocking my signal.
> 
> 
> That's pretty rare.  WiFi is designed to share spectrum with other 
> similar systems.  If it were a non wifi system causing you grief it 
> would likely be more consistant.
> 
>> I have tried different channels with little success.
> 
> 
> Only channels 1,6, and 11 are non overlapping with other.
> 
>> how about even a microwave oven interfering?
> 
> 
> Again, it can happen.  But it would not likely be so long at a time.
> 
>>
>> I am considering buying an amp, I never used one, what would the group 
>> recommend?
> 
> 
> Don't.  Not for this short of a link.
> 
> If you insist on playing with an amp (that'll put you over the eirp 
> rules for any channels above 5 or 6 as I reacall) look at shireen, 
> teletronics or rf linx (or is it rf lynx?).  Hyperlink is a popular 
> brand but they tend to sell people amps that put them outside of the FCC 
> rules so I don't like them.
> 
> Hope it helps,
> marlon
> 
>>
>> thanks again,
>> larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
>> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
>> Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
>> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY
>>
>>
>> Joe S. Borovetz wrote:
>>
>>> The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again 
>>> on 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies 
>>> for wi-fi.
>>>
>>> I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they 
>>> confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes 
>>> for 5.8.
>>>
>>> Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ham-80211 mailing list
>>> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>>> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ham-80211 mailing list
>> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 
> 



From wchast at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 16:38:48 2007
From: wchast at gmail.com (Chuck Hast)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 12:38:48 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble
In-Reply-To: <4666DFD8.4020209@adelphia.net>
References: <4665A977.1000504@adelphia.net>
	<424314.48739.qm@web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666@G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>
	<006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0@mlaptop2>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8@tapr.org>
	<4666BEA8.5060204@adelphia.net>
	<003001c7a855$6cfe7350$09ba9240@marlon>
	<4666DFD8.4020209@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <620c90570706060938n542915c0h809c8f8cd7f68bdb@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/6/07, Larry <schntv at adelphia.net> wrote:
> I changed from channel 1 to 11 and sat it for B only, and it
> is working great so far.
>
Yes, G and deep fades are not compatible...

-- 
Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
To paraphrase my flight instructor;
"the only dumb question is the one you DID NOT ask resulting in my going
out and having to identify your bits and pieces in the midst of torn
and twisted metal."



From ussailis at shaysnet.com  Thu Jun  7 00:28:17 2007
From: ussailis at shaysnet.com (ussailis at shaysnet.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 20:28:17 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] RE: ham-80211 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 1
Message-ID: <380-2200764702817694@M2W014.mail2web.com>

There are two other things that can be important:

1. DECREASING bandwidth will provide as much gain as increasing power.
Reducing bandwidth by one-half provides 3 dB gain, the same as doubling
power. Go down to 1 mbps if you are not there.

2. Tree leaves are a horrid multipatrh generator. Some folks say that tree
leaves attenuate. Actually, the mode is multipath reflection. This provides
bith attenuation and phase changes. Not good.

Jim, W1EQO

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  ham-80211-request at lists.tapr.org
Date: Wed,  6 Jun 2007 10:13:25 -0400 (EDT)
To: ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
Subject: ham-80211 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 1


Send ham-80211 mailing list submissions to
	ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	ham-80211-request at lists.tapr.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	ham-80211-owner at lists.tapr.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of ham-80211 digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. WAP54  bridge  trouble (Larry)
   2. Re: WAP54  bridge  trouble (James R. Gorr)
   3. RE: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch))
   4. Re: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Marlon K. Schafer)
   5. Re: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Joe S. Borovetz)
   6. RE: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Darryl Smith)
   7. Re: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Larry)
   8. RE: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch))


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 14:20:39 -0400
From: Larry <schntv at adelphia.net>
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
Message-ID: <4665A977.1000504 at adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge mode, about 
half a mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
the system worked fine during the winter, and I am sure the 
leaves are a problem.
the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact they 
connect fine and will handle data for a few minutes then seem 
to loose contact.
if I wait half an hour the work again for a few minutes.
is there a setting I should change??
would an amplifier help?
I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.

thanks,
larry


-- 
Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:16:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: "James R. Gorr" <n3toy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
	<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID: <424314.48739.qm at web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1



Is it repetitive and predictable?  In other words,
after 5 minutes it "shut down" for 25 minutes then it
works again for 5 minutes...?  It almost sounds like
it could be a heat issue.  The transmitter heats up
and maybe a trace breaks contact or something.  It
does not sound like a setting (I assume you have not
made any changes to the nodes since the last time you
knew it to work).  The colder temps in the winter
could have kept the unit from over-heating, but now
the hotter, summertime temps are here and causing a
heat issue.

Jamie

--- Larry <schntv at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge
> mode, about 
> half a mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
> the system worked fine during the winter, and I am
> sure the 
> leaves are a problem.
> the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact
> they 
> connect fine and will handle data for a few minutes
> then seem 
> to loose contact.
> if I wait half an hour the work again for a few
> minutes.
> is there a setting I should change??
> would an amplifier help?
> I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.
> 
> thanks,
> larry
> 
> 
> -- 
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622      
> www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class
> K8WLY
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 



       
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 19:41:45 -0000
From: "Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch)" <fred.juch at hp.com>
Subject: RE: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
	<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID:
	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666 at G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

This sounds to me like you have no link margin. The leaves raised the
link loss to a level too high to allow reliable communications. Yes
amplifiers will probably help. What you need to do is calculate the link
loss with the leaves, and either raise the antennas to remove this loss,
or increase the power to compensate. Power can be increased by using
bigger antennas, receive pre amps, or power amplifiers. You can use the
calculations on this web page:
http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/calculations.asp I am not
associated with this page.

Fred Juch, N5JXO

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of James R. Gorr
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:16 PM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble



Is it repetitive and predictable?  In other words, after 5 minutes it
"shut down" for 25 minutes then it works again for 5 minutes...?  It
almost sounds like it could be a heat issue.  The transmitter heats up
and maybe a trace breaks contact or something.  It does not sound like a
setting (I assume you have not made any changes to the nodes since the
last time you knew it to work).  The colder temps in the winter could
have kept the unit from over-heating, but now the hotter, summertime
temps are here and causing a heat issue.

Jamie

--- Larry <schntv at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge mode, about half a 
> mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
> the system worked fine during the winter, and I am sure the leaves are

> a problem.
> the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact they connect fine 
> and will handle data for a few minutes then seem to loose contact.
> if I wait half an hour the work again for a few minutes.
> is there a setting I should change??
> would an amplifier help?
> I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.
> 
> thanks,
> larry
> 
> 
> --
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622      
> www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class
> K8WLY
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 



       
________________________________________________________________________
____________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 13:39:51 -0700
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <ooe at odessaoffice.com>
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
	<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID: <006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0 at mlaptop2>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

One of the problems with using the consumer grade gear is that it gives 
crappy signal level indications.

For a wifi signal to work in b mode you normally only need about -80 to -85 
dB.  G mode will be closer to -65 to -70.

.5 miles with 24 dB grids is a LOT of power.  It's very likely you are 
picking up interference, multipath etc.

Here are a couple of tests to try.  Cross polarize your antennas.  See what 
happens.

Point one or both antennas 180* away from the other end of the link.

If any of these tests helps, you likely have too much power.  WiFi is
touchy 
that way sometimes.
marlon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch)" <fred.juch at hp.com>
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11" 
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble


This sounds to me like you have no link margin. The leaves raised the
link loss to a level too high to allow reliable communications. Yes
amplifiers will probably help. What you need to do is calculate the link
loss with the leaves, and either raise the antennas to remove this loss,
or increase the power to compensate. Power can be increased by using
bigger antennas, receive pre amps, or power amplifiers. You can use the
calculations on this web page:
http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/calculations.asp I am not
associated with this page.

Fred Juch, N5JXO

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of James R. Gorr
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:16 PM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble



Is it repetitive and predictable?  In other words, after 5 minutes it
"shut down" for 25 minutes then it works again for 5 minutes...?  It
almost sounds like it could be a heat issue.  The transmitter heats up
and maybe a trace breaks contact or something.  It does not sound like a
setting (I assume you have not made any changes to the nodes since the
last time you knew it to work).  The colder temps in the winter could
have kept the unit from over-heating, but now the hotter, summertime
temps are here and causing a heat issue.

Jamie

--- Larry <schntv at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge mode, about half a
> mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
> the system worked fine during the winter, and I am sure the leaves are

> a problem.
> the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact they connect fine
> and will handle data for a few minutes then seem to loose contact.
> if I wait half an hour the work again for a few minutes.
> is there a setting I should change??
> would an amplifier help?
> I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.
>
> thanks,
> larry
>
>
> --
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622
> www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class
> K8WLY
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>




________________________________________________________________________
____________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211 




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:29:49 -0500
From: "Joe S. Borovetz" <wa5vms at tapr.org>
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
	<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8 at tapr.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again 
on 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for
wi-fi.

I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they 
confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes for
5.8.

Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.

Joe





------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 12:57:42 +1000
From: "Darryl Smith" <Darryl at radio-active.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "'TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11'"
	<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID: <01af01c7a7e6$736257d0$5a270770$@net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

If you look at the Wireless Design text books for Cellphone Networks - such
as the ones by C.Y.Lee you will find attenuation curves for Pine Forests.
The reason in this case is that the 850/900 MHz of many cellphones has a
quarter wave wavelength that is about equal to the average length of pine
needles. That is, the pine needles in a pine forest becomes an amazing set
of distributed dummy loads. 

I would imagine that leaves of most trees are much shorter providing more
absorption, and more reflections away too.

Darryl 

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Joe S. Borovetz
Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2007 12:30 PM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble

The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again 
on 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for
wi-fi.

I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they 
confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes for
5.8.

Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.

Joe



_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:03:20 -0400
From: Larry <schntv at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
	<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID: <4666BEA8.5060204 at adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

I agree it is probably the leaves, but it seemed strange how 
it will down load data for a few minutes than get lost.
then after a period, work for a few minutes again.
I was hoping there were some tweaking I could do to the WAP54 
setup.
also there are days it works perfect then maybe the rain or 
humidity changes and its gone.
As someone mentioned, it is a very strong link, if there were 
no trees. so I wonder if more power or more antenna gain would 
even help.
my antenna is up about 40 ft. but the neighbors trees are 
about 80 ft.
I cant afford to go that high as a test.
How can I tell if another station is blocking my signal.
I have tried different channels with little success.
how about even a microwave oven interfering?

I am considering buying an amp, I never used one, what would 
the group recommend?

thanks again,
larry





Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY


Joe S. Borovetz wrote:
> The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again on 
> 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for 
> wi-fi.
> 
> I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they confirmed 
> time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes for 5.8.
> 
> Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 
> 



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 14:10:10 -0000
From: "Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch)" <fred.juch at hp.com>
Subject: RE: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
	<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID:
	<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEFAAC at G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Try setting the link to use 802.11B only. The units may be trying to go
to too high a modulation level for the interference to handle. A working
11 MB link is better than a non working 54 MB link. This would need to
be set on both ends.

Fred N5JXO 

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 9:03 AM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble

I agree it is probably the leaves, but it seemed strange how it will
down load data for a few minutes than get lost.
then after a period, work for a few minutes again.
I was hoping there were some tweaking I could do to the WAP54 setup.
also there are days it works perfect then maybe the rain or humidity
changes and its gone.
As someone mentioned, it is a very strong link, if there were no trees.
so I wonder if more power or more antenna gain would even help.
my antenna is up about 40 ft. but the neighbors trees are about 80 ft.
I cant afford to go that high as a test.
How can I tell if another station is blocking my signal.
I have tried different channels with little success.
how about even a microwave oven interfering?

I am considering buying an amp, I never used one, what would the group
recommend?

thanks again,
larry





Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY


Joe S. Borovetz wrote:
> The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again 
> on
> 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for 
> wi-fi.
> 
> I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they 
> confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes
for 5.8.
> 
> Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of
trees.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
> 
> 

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211


End of ham-80211 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 1
****************************************


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From esj at harvee.org  Thu Jun  7 00:40:23 2007
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 20:40:23 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] RE: ham-80211 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <380-2200764702817694@M2W014.mail2web.com>
References: <380-2200764702817694@M2W014.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <466753F7.7000209@harvee.org>

ussailis at shaysnet.com wrote:
> There are two other things that can be important:
> 
> 1. DECREASING bandwidth will provide as much gain as increasing power.
> Reducing bandwidth by one-half provides 3 dB gain, the same as doubling
> power. Go down to 1 mbps if you are not there.
> 
> 2. Tree leaves are a horrid multipatrh generator. Some folks say that tree
> leaves attenuate. Actually, the mode is multipath reflection. This provides
> bith attenuation and phase changes. Not good.

how does dropping frequency affect trees and multipath?  for example, if we used 
all of 2 m, 220, and 440 for spread spectrum/data bandwidth, could we build an 
infrastructure that replaces and surpasses the capabilities provided by classic 
narrowband repeaters?

---eric


-- 
Speech-recognition in use.  It makes mistakes, I correct some.



From dyoung at pobox.com  Thu Jun  7 06:01:04 2007
From: dyoung at pobox.com (David Young)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 01:01:04 -0500
Subject: [Ham-80211] RE: ham-80211 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <380-2200764702817694@M2W014.mail2web.com>
References: <380-2200764702817694@M2W014.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <20070607060104.GI28734@che.ojctech.com>

On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 08:28:17PM -0400, ussailis at shaysnet.com wrote:
> There are two other things that can be important:
> 
> 1. DECREASING bandwidth will provide as much gain as increasing power.
> Reducing bandwidth by one-half provides 3 dB gain, the same as doubling
> power. Go down to 1 mbps if you are not there.

Vendors produce tidy-looking charts that show the relationship between
S/N ratio and delivery probability at each bitrate.  1 Mb/s usually has
a higher delivery probability than 11 Mb/s at the same S/N.  The charts
do not show the full picture, though.

I believe you will usually do best by selecting the bitrate dynamically.
Some of the research in the field implies that.  For example,
<http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/roofnet:sigcomm04/index.html> examines
data from a real-world testbed and concludes, in part,

        "A practical conclusion from the data in this section is that
        although S/N does affect delivery probability, one cannot expect
        to use S/N as a predictive tool."

The bitrate selection algorithm that the WRT54 uses probably does *not*
follow these suggested guidelines, from the same research paper:

        "First, an algorithm should wait until a high bit-rate is
        performing very badly (i.e. delivering only half the packets)
        before it reduces the bit-rate.  Second, 11 Mbit/s often provides
        higher throughput than 5.5 Mbit/s even when the loss rate at 11
        Mbit/s is higher than 50%. Third, performance at a low bit-rate is
        not a good predictor of performance at higher rates: for example,
        there are many links with high loss rates at 1Mbit/s that would
        have a higher throughput at 11Mbit/s. These observations imply
        that bit-rate selection must be based on explicit measurements
        of throughput at the different rates, rather than on indirect
        prediction."

In the face of bursts of interference, a WLAN system may deliver
more packets at a high bitrate than at a low one, holding the packet
length in bits the same, because more packets may fit between bursts of
interference when their transmission time is shorter.  That is true for
microwave oven interference, for example.  You can read more about that,
<http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Papers/Adaptive.Frag.html>.

Dave

-- 
David Young             OJC Technologies
dyoung at ojctech.com      Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933 ext 24



From ooe at odessaoffice.com  Thu Jun  7 17:02:57 2007
From: ooe at odessaoffice.com (Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 10:02:57 -0700
Subject: [Ham-80211] RE: ham-80211 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 1
References: <380-2200764702817694@M2W014.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <007601c7a925$b2a23f10$09ba9240@marlon>

For g mode systems that multipath is generally a good thing.  OFDM likes 
multipath.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
42846865 (icq)                                    WISP Operator since 1999!
ooe at odessaoffice.com
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ussailis at shaysnet.com>
To: <ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 5:28 PM
Subject: [Ham-80211] RE: ham-80211 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 1


There are two other things that can be important:

1. DECREASING bandwidth will provide as much gain as increasing power.
Reducing bandwidth by one-half provides 3 dB gain, the same as doubling
power. Go down to 1 mbps if you are not there.

2. Tree leaves are a horrid multipatrh generator. Some folks say that tree
leaves attenuate. Actually, the mode is multipath reflection. This provides
bith attenuation and phase changes. Not good.

Jim, W1EQO

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  ham-80211-request at lists.tapr.org
Date: Wed,  6 Jun 2007 10:13:25 -0400 (EDT)
To: ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
Subject: ham-80211 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 1


Send ham-80211 mailing list submissions to
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
ham-80211-request at lists.tapr.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
ham-80211-owner at lists.tapr.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of ham-80211 digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. WAP54  bridge  trouble (Larry)
   2. Re: WAP54  bridge  trouble (James R. Gorr)
   3. RE: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch))
   4. Re: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Marlon K. Schafer)
   5. Re: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Joe S. Borovetz)
   6. RE: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Darryl Smith)
   7. Re: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Larry)
   8. RE: WAP54  bridge  trouble (Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch))


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 14:20:39 -0400
From: Larry <schntv at adelphia.net>
Subject: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
Message-ID: <4665A977.1000504 at adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge mode, about
half a mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
the system worked fine during the winter, and I am sure the
leaves are a problem.
the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact they
connect fine and will handle data for a few minutes then seem
to loose contact.
if I wait half an hour the work again for a few minutes.
is there a setting I should change??
would an amplifier help?
I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.

thanks,
larry


-- 
Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:16:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: "James R. Gorr" <n3toy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID: <424314.48739.qm at web54104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1



Is it repetitive and predictable?  In other words,
after 5 minutes it "shut down" for 25 minutes then it
works again for 5 minutes...?  It almost sounds like
it could be a heat issue.  The transmitter heats up
and maybe a trace breaks contact or something.  It
does not sound like a setting (I assume you have not
made any changes to the nodes since the last time you
knew it to work).  The colder temps in the winter
could have kept the unit from over-heating, but now
the hotter, summertime temps are here and causing a
heat issue.

Jamie

--- Larry <schntv at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge
> mode, about
> half a mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
> the system worked fine during the winter, and I am
> sure the
> leaves are a problem.
> the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact
> they
> connect fine and will handle data for a few minutes
> then seem
> to loose contact.
> if I wait half an hour the work again for a few
> minutes.
> is there a setting I should change??
> would an amplifier help?
> I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.
>
> thanks,
> larry
>
>
> -- 
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622
> www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class
> K8WLY
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>




____________________________________________________________________________
________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 19:41:45 -0000
From: "Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch)" <fred.juch at hp.com>
Subject: RE: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID:
<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEF666 at G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

This sounds to me like you have no link margin. The leaves raised the
link loss to a level too high to allow reliable communications. Yes
amplifiers will probably help. What you need to do is calculate the link
loss with the leaves, and either raise the antennas to remove this loss,
or increase the power to compensate. Power can be increased by using
bigger antennas, receive pre amps, or power amplifiers. You can use the
calculations on this web page:
http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/calculations.asp I am not
associated with this page.

Fred Juch, N5JXO

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of James R. Gorr
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:16 PM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble



Is it repetitive and predictable?  In other words, after 5 minutes it
"shut down" for 25 minutes then it works again for 5 minutes...?  It
almost sounds like it could be a heat issue.  The transmitter heats up
and maybe a trace breaks contact or something.  It does not sound like a
setting (I assume you have not made any changes to the nodes since the
last time you knew it to work).  The colder temps in the winter could
have kept the unit from over-heating, but now the hotter, summertime
temps are here and causing a heat issue.

Jamie

--- Larry <schntv at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge mode, about half a
> mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
> the system worked fine during the winter, and I am sure the leaves are

> a problem.
> the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact they connect fine
> and will handle data for a few minutes then seem to loose contact.
> if I wait half an hour the work again for a few minutes.
> is there a setting I should change??
> would an amplifier help?
> I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.
>
> thanks,
> larry
>
>
> --
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622
> www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class
> K8WLY
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>




________________________________________________________________________
____________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 13:39:51 -0700
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <ooe at odessaoffice.com>
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID: <006401c7a7b1$ab8ea210$0375a8c0 at mlaptop2>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

One of the problems with using the consumer grade gear is that it gives
crappy signal level indications.

For a wifi signal to work in b mode you normally only need about -80 to -85
dB.  G mode will be closer to -65 to -70.

.5 miles with 24 dB grids is a LOT of power.  It's very likely you are
picking up interference, multipath etc.

Here are a couple of tests to try.  Cross polarize your antennas.  See what
happens.

Point one or both antennas 180* away from the other end of the link.

If any of these tests helps, you likely have too much power.  WiFi is
touchy
that way sometimes.
marlon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch)" <fred.juch at hp.com>
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble


This sounds to me like you have no link margin. The leaves raised the
link loss to a level too high to allow reliable communications. Yes
amplifiers will probably help. What you need to do is calculate the link
loss with the leaves, and either raise the antennas to remove this loss,
or increase the power to compensate. Power can be increased by using
bigger antennas, receive pre amps, or power amplifiers. You can use the
calculations on this web page:
http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/calculations.asp I am not
associated with this page.

Fred Juch, N5JXO

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of James R. Gorr
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:16 PM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble



Is it repetitive and predictable?  In other words, after 5 minutes it
"shut down" for 25 minutes then it works again for 5 minutes...?  It
almost sounds like it could be a heat issue.  The transmitter heats up
and maybe a trace breaks contact or something.  It does not sound like a
setting (I assume you have not made any changes to the nodes since the
last time you knew it to work).  The colder temps in the winter could
have kept the unit from over-heating, but now the hotter, summertime
temps are here and causing a heat issue.

Jamie

--- Larry <schntv at adelphia.net> wrote:

> I am using 2- WAP54 with 24 DB antennas, in bridge mode, about half a
> mile apart. there are some trees in the path.
> the system worked fine during the winter, and I am sure the leaves are

> a problem.
> the strange thing I am questioning consens the fact they connect fine
> and will handle data for a few minutes then seem to loose contact.
> if I wait half an hour the work again for a few minutes.
> is there a setting I should change??
> would an amplifier help?
> I cant trim the trees, they are not mine.
>
> thanks,
> larry
>
>
> --
> Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
> 5415 N. Wooster ave.
> Dover, Ohio 44622
> www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
> 330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class
> K8WLY
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>




________________________________________________________________________
____________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:29:49 -0500
From: "Joe S. Borovetz" <wa5vms at tapr.org>
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070605212426.046904d8 at tapr.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again
on 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for
wi-fi.

I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they
confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes for
5.8.

Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.

Joe





------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 12:57:42 +1000
From: "Darryl Smith" <Darryl at radio-active.net.au>
Subject: RE: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "'TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11'"
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID: <01af01c7a7e6$736257d0$5a270770$@net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

If you look at the Wireless Design text books for Cellphone Networks - such
as the ones by C.Y.Lee you will find attenuation curves for Pine Forests.
The reason in this case is that the 850/900 MHz of many cellphones has a
quarter wave wavelength that is about equal to the average length of pine
needles. That is, the pine needles in a pine forest becomes an amazing set
of distributed dummy loads.

I would imagine that leaves of most trees are much shorter providing more
absorption, and more reflections away too.

Darryl

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Joe S. Borovetz
Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2007 12:30 PM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble

The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again
on 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for
wi-fi.

I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they
confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes for
5.8.

Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.

Joe



_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:03:20 -0400
From: Larry <schntv at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID: <4666BEA8.5060204 at adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

I agree it is probably the leaves, but it seemed strange how
it will down load data for a few minutes than get lost.
then after a period, work for a few minutes again.
I was hoping there were some tweaking I could do to the WAP54
setup.
also there are days it works perfect then maybe the rain or
humidity changes and its gone.
As someone mentioned, it is a very strong link, if there were
no trees. so I wonder if more power or more antenna gain would
even help.
my antenna is up about 40 ft. but the neighbors trees are
about 80 ft.
I cant afford to go that high as a test.
How can I tell if another station is blocking my signal.
I have tried different channels with little success.
how about even a microwave oven interfering?

I am considering buying an amp, I never used one, what would
the group recommend?

thanks again,
larry





Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY


Joe S. Borovetz wrote:
> The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again on
> 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for
> wi-fi.
>
> I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they confirmed
> time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes for 5.8.
>
> Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of trees.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>
>



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 14:10:10 -0000
From: "Juch Iii, Roy F (Fred Juch)" <fred.juch at hp.com>
Subject: RE: [Ham-80211] WAP54  bridge  trouble
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Message-ID:
<D5B52C9D10F16F42A15672171D144BE3FEFAAC at G3W0637.americas.hpqcorp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Try setting the link to use 802.11B only. The units may be trying to go
to too high a modulation level for the interference to handle. A working
11 MB link is better than a non working 54 MB link. This would need to
be set on both ends.

Fred N5JXO

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 9:03 AM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: Re: [Ham-80211] WAP54 bridge trouble

I agree it is probably the leaves, but it seemed strange how it will
down load data for a few minutes than get lost.
then after a period, work for a few minutes again.
I was hoping there were some tweaking I could do to the WAP54 setup.
also there are days it works perfect then maybe the rain or humidity
changes and its gone.
As someone mentioned, it is a very strong link, if there were no trees.
so I wonder if more power or more antenna gain would even help.
my antenna is up about 40 ft. but the neighbors trees are about 80 ft.
I cant afford to go that high as a test.
How can I tell if another station is blocking my signal.
I have tried different channels with little success.
how about even a microwave oven interfering?

I am considering buying an amp, I never used one, what would the group
recommend?

thanks again,
larry





Schneider TV & Electronic Inc.
5415 N. Wooster ave.
Dover, Ohio 44622       www.geocities.com/schntv2000/
330-343-0768         FCC. first class & Extra class K8WLY


Joe S. Borovetz wrote:
> The trees are the major problem. I have seen it happen time and again
> on
> 2.4 wireless LAN links......not using 802.11 but the same applies for
> wi-fi.
>
> I have a friend who did links for a major oil company and they
> confirmed time and again that trees and 2.4 do not mix. The same goes
for 5.8.
>
> Motorola Canopy which is usually reliable died in the presence of
trees.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>
>

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211



------------------------------

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https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211


End of ham-80211 Digest, Vol 29, Issue 1
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From esj at harvee.org  Tue Jun 12 18:06:41 2007
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:06:41 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.
Message-ID: <466EE0B1.1070803@harvee.org>

pcmcia lucent wavelan turbo 11mb silver (4)
pcmcia orinoco 11mb silver (2)


free for the asking (postage repay would be welcome).  if no taker by the 
weekend (june 16), they go in the trash.

--- eric

-- 
Speech-recognition in use.  It makes mistakes, I correct some.



From pete at petemaxfield.com  Tue Jun 12 18:17:45 2007
From: pete at petemaxfield.com (Peter Maxfield)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:17:45 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.
In-Reply-To: <466EE0B1.1070803@harvee.org>
Message-ID: <200706121818.l5CIIad9014850@mail.grid4.com>

Please contact me off list at Pete at petemaxfield.com.  Thanx!

-----Original Message-----
From: ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org
[mailto:ham-80211-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Eric S. Johansson
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 2:07 PM
To: TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11
Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.

pcmcia lucent wavelan turbo 11mb silver (4)
pcmcia orinoco 11mb silver (2)


free for the asking (postage repay would be welcome).  if no taker by the 
weekend (june 16), they go in the trash.

--- eric

-- 
Speech-recognition in use.  It makes mistakes, I correct some.

_______________________________________________
ham-80211 mailing list
ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.14/845 - Release Date: 6/12/2007
6:39 AM





From wa6dfu at arrl.net  Tue Jun 12 18:27:33 2007
From: wa6dfu at arrl.net (wa6dfu at arrl.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:27:33 -0700
Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.
References: <466EE0B1.1070803@harvee.org>
Message-ID: <001001c7ad1f$587b8570$21ccfea9@Shack>

Same here.  Pete  wa6dfu at arrl.net

Tnx.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org>
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11" 
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:06 AM
Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.


> pcmcia lucent wavelan turbo 11mb silver (4)
> pcmcia orinoco 11mb silver (2)
>
>
> free for the asking (postage repay would be welcome).  if no taker 
> by the weekend (june 16), they go in the trash.
>
> --- eric
>
> -- 
> Speech-recognition in use.  It makes mistakes, I correct some.
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211 




From tarvid at ls.net  Tue Jun 12 18:39:06 2007
From: tarvid at ls.net (Jim Tarvid)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:39:06 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.
In-Reply-To: <001001c7ad1f$587b8570$21ccfea9@Shack>
References: <466EE0B1.1070803@harvee.org>
	<001001c7ad1f$587b8570$21ccfea9@Shack>
Message-ID: <41acbd2a0706121139y526ff9d0j31652ebb96f7ccf8@mail.gmail.com>

I could use a couple with the little antenna jacks in the end.

Happily pay $10 each by PayPal

On 6/12/07, wa6dfu at arrl.net <wa6dfu at arrl.net> wrote:
> Same here.  Pete  wa6dfu at arrl.net
>
> Tnx.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org>
> To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
> <ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:06 AM
> Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.
>
>
> > pcmcia lucent wavelan turbo 11mb silver (4)
> > pcmcia orinoco 11mb silver (2)
> >
> >
> > free for the asking (postage repay would be welcome).  if no taker
> > by the weekend (june 16), they go in the trash.
> >
> > --- eric
> >
> > --
> > Speech-recognition in use.  It makes mistakes, I correct some.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ham-80211 mailing list
> > ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> > https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>



From jeff at aerodata.net  Tue Jun 12 18:52:02 2007
From: jeff at aerodata.net (jeff at aerodata.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:52:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.
In-Reply-To: <41acbd2a0706121139y526ff9d0j31652ebb96f7ccf8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <466EE0B1.1070803@harvee.org>
	<001001c7ad1f$587b8570$21ccfea9@Shack>
	<41acbd2a0706121139y526ff9d0j31652ebb96f7ccf8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36805.64.179.49.62.1181674322.squirrel@www.aerodata.net>

I've got 1400 new ones with jacks in the end (antenna detaches). PRISM and
works with netstumbler. Any reasonable offer for the lot.




> I could use a couple with the little antenna jacks in the end.
>
> Happily pay $10 each by PayPal
>
> On 6/12/07, wa6dfu at arrl.net <wa6dfu at arrl.net> wrote:
>> Same here.  Pete  wa6dfu at arrl.net
>>
>> Tnx.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org>
>> To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11"
>> <ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:06 AM
>> Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.
>>
>>
>> > pcmcia lucent wavelan turbo 11mb silver (4)
>> > pcmcia orinoco 11mb silver (2)
>> >
>> >
>> > free for the asking (postage repay would be welcome).  if no taker
>> > by the weekend (june 16), they go in the trash.
>> >
>> > --- eric
>> >
>> > --
>> > Speech-recognition in use.  It makes mistakes, I correct some.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > ham-80211 mailing list
>> > ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>> > https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ham-80211 mailing list
>> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
>> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>





From stevebailey at hypernet.com  Tue Jun 12 19:15:58 2007
From: stevebailey at hypernet.com (Steve Bailey)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:15:58 -0400
Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.
References: <466EE0B1.1070803@harvee.org>
Message-ID: <002f01c7ad26$1cc789f0$bd23fc42@nnnnnnnnnn>

Hello, Yes please, let me know how much you need for postage for your cards. 
Thanks, Steve Bailey [KA1RXX], 434 Varnumville Road, Brooksville, Maine 
04617
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org>
To: "TAPR Mailing List for Ham Radio Use of 802.11" 
<ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 2:06 PM
Subject: [Ham-80211] 802.11 pcmcia cards available.


> pcmcia lucent wavelan turbo 11mb silver (4)
> pcmcia orinoco 11mb silver (2)
>
>
> free for the asking (postage repay would be welcome).  if no taker by the 
> weekend (june 16), they go in the trash.
>
> --- eric
>
> -- 
> Speech-recognition in use.  It makes mistakes, I correct some.
>
> _______________________________________________
> ham-80211 mailing list
> ham-80211 at lists.tapr.org
> https://lists.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ham-80211
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.14/845 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 
> 6:39 AM
>
>